Fanon Discussion: Juraian Fertility

[BlackAeronaut]

Interesting thought about Juraian Women in Tenchi Muyo.  Most that we've seen only have two or three children.  This could be because despite having longer lifespans, they still ovulate at the same rate as human women.  This would mean that, in comparison to their life span, they have a relatively tiny window to have children.  It would certainly explain why they feel so pressured to find a guy.

Cases include Misaki and Funaho (three between the two of them: Yosho, Ayeka, and Sasami), Amame Masaki (only had Azusa), and Kiyone Masaki (two: Tenchi and Tennyo).

Kiyone is a bit of an outlier, though, in that Tenchi and Tennyo are about eighty years apart.  However, since she didn't really avail herself of advanced medical technology, I'd say her being half-Airaian had something to do with that.

Now, granted there would very likely be a procedure of some kind to stop ovulation (pretty sure modern BC pills can do that) or they can have their ova harvest for later use (again, doable IRL).  But I think that given their long life spans, they probably see it as a form of natural population control.  (If they were fertile for their entire lifespans, they could possibly have hundreds of children.)

Thoughts?

[Zigra]

Awhile back, I had toyed with the idea of addressing this issue in a fanfic. What would have happened is that we would find out that Azusa and Funaho have had quite a few more children (as well as a large number of distant descendants; it's been 700 years after all), but we just hadn't met them yet. (And Misaki hasn't had any more children with Azusa for....other....reasons). I just thought that it would be an interesting twist to learn that the royals have indeed had more children that we didn't know about.

[جبريل 無道]

In society today birth rates seem to drop with women having birth control, going into the workforce --so she spends her most fertile years on a job-- and probably increasing cost of living.  Having and raising a kid gets more expensive (outpacing inflation) every generation.

I guess what applies to Jurain Royalty would be birth control and mostly the work.  Misaki is the head of the Royal Bodyguard and Funaho is no slouch, either, I'm sure, with Yosho asking her on the reconstruction of the great hall.... and going by how Seto slave drives those under her like Airi and the like.

I would think Jurai has something like stem cell treatments to make eggs a nonfactor.  Even if making new eggs were a problem, Aeka waking from 700 years stasis in episode 2 suggests they could do the same for existing eggs (they were doing the same for her eggs then, just with them in her body still).

Also, Washu propositioned Tenchi in the Baby Taro episode, to have a new baby with him.  She also made Ryoko from her eggs 5,000 years ago while having her son Mikumo 20,000 years ago.  She's Galaxy Academy, and it would be probable Jurai has access to the same technology.

I know you mentioned Airai, but just to run through it: Airi conceived Minaho 700 years ago and I think mama Kiyone was only a couple hundred years old, suggesting a 500 year gap.  In any case, Yosho only contacted Airi once his first wife/cousin on earth died of old age like 120 (?) suggesting at least a 100 year gap.

One thing to consider that the Japan Masaki Kajishima is living in, despite it's great prosperity, has a very low birth rate, and an aging, old population.  That's one reason they are so into robotics, because they want to find a way of supplementing this workforce and also of taking care of the elderly:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30653825

Of course, some of Japan could be increasing isolation via technology and something like (but not exactly) the Behavioral Sink described by Dr. Calhoun back in the 50s and 60s (and wouldn't apply to Jurai):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM

[BlackAeronaut]

IIRC, Funaho is the Head of Political Inteligence or something like that - putting it into terms an American can better understand, she'd be like the head of the CIA while Misaki is the head of the Secret Service.  Which makes sense that these two work as a pair.  (This also makes them Scary As All Hell and one step shy of a) Azusa showing up with his 1st Gen Ship, ready to kick teeth in, or b) Seto showing up, period.)

But I can see what you mean about a busy lifestyle.

Also, I thought that Minaho was actually the older sister, with Kiyone only passing away so soon because she did not get the GP Body Modification or a Royal Tree.

Regarding low birthrates in Japan, I knew about it, but it never occurred to me that it may play a role in how Kajishima-sensei developed his characters.  However, as you implied, I don't think that the factors that have lead to low birthrates in Japan necessarily translate into the circumstances of the Juraians.

If anything, the Juraians probably intentionally limit their birthrates so they're less likely to run into the same problem Dr. Calhoun noted in his experiments.

[جبريل 無道]

Also, I thought that Minaho was actually the older sister, with Kiyone only passing away so soon because she did not get the GP Body Modification or a Royal Tree.

It's so, I was just reiterating the facts suggest there is a 500 year gap between Airi having Minaho and Kiyone, at least conception-wise.  Minaho was kept in stasis as a fetus for quite a while by Airi iirc.

Regarding low birthrates in Japan, I knew about it, but it never occurred to me that it may play a role in how Kajishima-sensei developed his characters.

Well, an artist may not actually think about such things explicitly, but their culture does impact their work.  If MK doesn't know anybody with 5-12 kids, his characters only having a few would seem normal to him.  If he were born in a very mormon Utah, everyone in the series would be having 5-6 kids minimum as a matter of course and he'll be writing monogamy stories because he's seen too many harems irl :p  Scifi and Fantasy writers often don't think through the full implications of their changes, like ultra long lifespans and the like if it's not the main theme of their work.

As for fanon possibilities:
-Drugs to keep the sex drive and/or child inclination down
-A eternally youthful human's brain changes with age after a few decades, and the inclination for children decreases after the first set
-Some type of policy by the government: fines, wage garnishments, a "choose children or eternal youth" policy after X amount of kids (this may have led the Kings of Jurai to have harems, as each new mother 'reset' the counter)
-Jurains have more kids, we just don't know about them, just like Tenchi didn't know his maternal Aunties and Grandmother.

Just for fanon/fan fiction: what if the branch of Yosho's family he had with first wife, Kasumi, is dedicated to the children policy of "choose children or eternal youth".  Hence why Kasumi chose to die.  The branch is alive and healthy (Kiriko and her brother descend from it), and Kiyone married into it via Nobuyuki and the couple didn't know which tradition they were going to follow.  Then the explanation for her death can be, soon after Tenchi, she and Nobuyuki opted to follow the earthly branch of the Masaki family, and she died in childbirth of her 3rd child.

[takahata]

It is likely that the female members of the Jurain Royal family do plan when they are going to have children.  There are a few major political reasons for the female members to limited the number of children which they have.  It is likely that female commoners are careful to plan when to have their children.

As a result of their long lifespans,  female Jurains are able to plan when to have children.  It is likely very hard for Jurains to raise more than two children at a time. 

For Kiyone and Nobuyuki,  they seem to have other children before Tenchi's birth. Since Kiyone and Nobuyuki have to keep a low profile about their long lifespans, they had to have two children before Tenchi's birth.  Since Tennyo was eighty years old in OVA episodes 1 and 2,   she was born in the year 1914.  Sometime after Tennyo was born,  Kiyone and Nobuyuki had another daughter.  In the below onsen image, there is a blue-violet hair woman below Taro's mother, Minaho, and Tennyo. We don't know the identity of this woman.  While she is likely one of Tenchi's female cousins, there is a chance that she can be his second sister.

Nobuyki and Kiyone may wanted to have more children after Tenchi was born.  As a result of the state of Kiyone's health, it seem to make no sense for Kiyone and Nobuyuki to have  other children. Yet likely as a result of an accident. Kiyone may gotten  pregnant. So there is a chance that Tenchi has another sister whom he thinks to be another of his second cousins.

[BlackAeronaut]

Scifi and Fantasy writers often don't think through the full implications of their changes, like ultra long lifespans and the like if it's not the main theme of their work.

Ain't that the gospel truth sometimes!

As for fanon possibilities:
-Drugs to keep the sex drive and/or child inclination down
-A eternally youthful human's brain changes with age after a few decades, and the inclination for children decreases after the first set
-Some type of policy by the government: fines, wage garnishments, a "choose children or eternal youth" policy after X amount of kids (this may have led the Kings of Jurai to have harems, as each new mother 'reset' the counter)
-Jurains have more kids, we just don't know about them, just like Tenchi didn't know his maternal Aunties and Grandmother.

Hmmm... The drugs can be a tricky thing.  Granted, their advance science may be able to alter their biochemistry precisely without dire (or even minor) side affects, but it is still something that would probably have to be custom tailored to each individual.

As for the desire to have children after the first one or two...  I'm not so certain of that.  There are many women out there that, if anything, their sex drive goes through the roof after they have a child.

A government policy would make sense, but the Empire of Jurai doesn't quite strike me that way.  If nothing else, remember that these people have a cultural heritage of piracy - their niceties are really a thin veneer over their debauchery.  (Seriously, the way Seto sets those girls after Seina, even knowing full-well that they're spies!) 

Hmmm... Tenchi not knowing about his extended family was due to Yosho wanting to remain incognito on Earth.  The man really does not want to return to Jurai, even at the cost of breaking Ayeka's heart.  (He loved her, just not the way their parents wanted him to.)  Although the idea of there being more family is something I would like to play around with.  For example, I like the idea of Yosho having a third daughter with Airi.... and naming her Achika. 

Just for fanon/fan fiction: what if the branch of Yosho's family he had with first wife, Kasumi, is dedicated to the children policy of "choose children or eternal youth".  Hence why Kasumi chose to die.  The branch is alive and healthy (Kiriko and her brother descend from it), and Kiyone married into it via Nobuyuki and the couple didn't know which tradition they were going to follow.  Then the explanation for her death can be, soon after Tenchi, she and Nobuyuki opted to follow the earthly branch of the Masaki family, and she died in childbirth of her 3rd child.

I thought that Yoshi wanted to remain incognito - that would have precluded Kasumi going into space.  Although, I think that if she really wanted to, Yosho could have made arrangements - I think it was stated in the Shin Tenchi Muyo novels that he was still in communication with Seto at the time.  However, Yosho had planted his tree, Funaho-no-ki, which would have meant that he should have died a long time ago.

Except that he had bound Ryoko's gems into the hilt of his Master Key... and these gems contained Washu's power, who happened to be Tsunami's sister, and therefore the same sort of power the trees receive from Tsunami.

And nobody knew about it, not even Tsunami herself!  The only hint anyone had was the sense of Kinship the Royal Trees felt from Ryoko - she was not simply overpowering their Navy, the trees were just reluctant to attack her because she felt like family to them!  (Had they attacked in numbers rather than just Funaho-no-fune alone, then Ryoko's attack may very well have been repelled despite having the full power of a Choushin at her disposal.)

Anyhow, Yosho has no idea, plants his tree on earth, expecting to grow old an die, and Kasumi is probably expecting the same.... except he winds up outliving Kasumi, which is something he probably deeply regretted at the time.  But in the mean time, he has been able to steward the Masaki-family line on Earth, which means that Seto's dream of a strong Masaki family has come true - they just tend to hang their hats on Earth rather than Jurai.

It is likely that the female members of the Jurain Royal family do plan when they are going to have children.  There are a few major political reasons for the female members to limited the number of children which they have.  It is likely that female commoners are careful to plan when to have their children.

As a result of their long lifespans,  female Jurains are able to plan when to have children.  It is likely very hard for Jurains to raise more than two children at a time. 

For Kiyone and Nobuyuki,  they seem to have other children before Tenchi's birth. Since Kiyone and Nobuyuki have to keep a low profile about their long lifespans, they had to have two children before Tenchi's birth.  Since Tennyo was eighty years old in OVA episodes 1 and 2,   she was born in the year 1914.  Sometime after Tennyo was born,  Kiyone and Nobuyuki had another daughter.  In the below onsen image, there is a blue-violet hair woman below Taro's mother, Minaho, and Tennyo. We don't know the identity of this woman.  While she is likely one of Tenchi's female cousins, there is a chance that she can be his second sister.

Nobuyki and Kiyone may wanted to have more children after Tenchi was born.  As a result of the state of Kiyone's health, it seem to make no sense for Kiyone and Nobuyuki to have no other children. Yet likely as a result of an accident. Kiyone may gotten  pregnant. So there is a chance that Tenchi has another sister whom he thinks to be another of his second cousins.

Interesting...  Can't wait to see the big reveal!