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okay, why i watcvhed Cuties ande didn't have a problem

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okay, why i watcvhed Cuties ande didn't have a problem
« on: September 17, 2020, 10:45:14 PM »

Nonsuch Ned

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This is quite long because it was an ongoing conversation. I cut out a lot of his "WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" talk. Ialso cut out some of my examples about sexualization in films over the ages (Blue Lagoon, Taxi Driver, Kids, etc.)

So,  there's this guy on the ANN forum, if you've spent some time there maybe you may remember him. Snomaster01. He's annoying, but I, like most every regular, give him a lot of leeway  because he is obviously quite autistic. Hyper focused and well- I actually have a good amount of experience with autiistic people, one I'd call a friend. It's a difference- not a disability. But he goes into conservative rants occasionally, verging on jingoistic, that can drive people nuts. But he's retreated to the subscriber forum now, where you're allowed to go off topic.

And he decides to tell  us all about Cuties, how it is, believe it or not, is like Footloose but with twerking little girls! Disgusting!  repeats a line he read ina Youtube comment that is was a film about "Twerking to Stardom" and spent about 3 paragraphs telling us about it, before telling us that he'd never watch it or even watch the trailer... everything was what he heard on Youtube and read in the comments.

So I responded simply that, as I understood it, that's not what it was. Netflix put out an initial promo image and description that made it seem like "Step Up"- with twerking little girls. They rather quickly removed both and apologized profusely to users and the director.

That isn't what it is AT ALL, and they emphasized that it was a disservice to this Sundance Film Festival award winning film.

decvided I couldn't respond again without actually being able to attest that I watched it and saw what it was....

The funny thing is that he then admitted he maybe over-reacted... but the next week, went right back to the same descriptions.

Quote from: Snomaster1

           What real good does "Cuties" than to make people worry that there are those trying to normalize something like pedophilia? How could I explain this to someone from the 1970's if I went back there or if someone from that time period came here? That person would probably think that some members of the film industry have lost their minds. In that way,me and a few others,couldn't help but agree with that person.

Again, you are way off here. In that it glamorizes pedophilia or that subjects like this are somehow new.

As Richard Brody in The New Yorker writes. “In fact, the subject of the film is exactly the opposite: it dramatizes the difficulties of growing up female in a sexualized and commercialized media culture.”


And sure enough, it's more of a damnation of all you're worried about than any sort of celebration. It's a very sad story and while the end tries to give a positive spin, it's a bit clumsy and sudden.

She rebels against her family, and she's got a reason to. Her father is in Senegal for one purpose, to take a second bride, that is the real disgusting thing. Her mother is breaking down but relenting to her husband's wishes as it is her culture to always obey her husband and polygamy is allowed in the version of Islam they practice. She gets in with the "bad girls" - who aren't bad so much as deluded, and goes too far and gets too crazy as she breaks down in the situation. Finally she gets into the competition (happening at the same time as the preparation for her father's wedding) and this final dance is one of two that fully shows how uncomfortable the dancing is. (The other is when she starts dancing frantically while some elder women try to exorcise her- quite disturbing) In this final dance you see it for what it is, young girls that don't know better. You see an audience that wants to see a dance competition slowly becoming reviled at their performance and the judges obviously not impressed (it doesn't dwell on it, just shows enough to let you realize how innapropriate it is) . She stops mid dance and leaves. There is some clumsy resolution where her mother sees her in her dance outfit crying and knows what's going on. She refuses to go to the wedding and apparently has her revelation of how wrong she's been. The final scene is her jumping rope with girls outside the wedding in a surreal scene where she raises into the sky.

So, it's not a great movie. Not so much "twerking to stardom" as it is "twerking to humiliation and revelation." She wanted to rebel, she wanted to belong, and honestly messes it all up.

there is nothing to "subject myself to." other than a movie whose morals and message I could predict. That's why I didn't want to watch it. As a fan of international film I did like a look into another culture but that was somewhat secondary and leads to more questions than answers. Does France allow religiously ordained polygamy? How strongly do other Muslim groups support such practices?
My favorite moment had nothing to do with the dancing. When the mother brings an Imam into the home to determine if her daughter is possessed by devils he responds to the real issues- "I know the troubles you are going through. Please know you have every right to leave this marriage. Your daughter is suffering from no sort of demonic possession. Keep your money."

some Kids SHOULD watch this, with parents ready to talk about it.
I can't stand the reaction to talk down to kids you are preaching.
This movie means to show an example of parents and mentors who do not involve themselves in the actual feelings and needs of their kids.
"learn about certain things when they're old enough to understand them in a meaningful way" - when parents like the ones in this film ignore what is actually going on in their lives the kids turn to other sources. They turn to the ignorance of their peers, they turn to TV, they turn to social media.

Another disturbing and representative scene is one in which Amy is in a woman's prayer group. She's apparently there to be taught, but she pulls her shawl over head, puts in her earbuds and as the grown ups ignore her she watches Raggaeton music videos featuring twerking idols on her stolen cell phone.

Ignoring issues do not make them go away. These images are already there in the world. Kids will imitate them.
Here is a movie that shows this truth and speaks against it  and you and the critics of the world cry "keep us ignorant!"

The actresses are certainly not hurt. As I've already mentioned, it seems the actresses like  Jodie Foster, Brooke Shields, Natalie Portman, Kirstin Dunst, Chloë Grace Moretz, etc. that have acted in films that feature them in roles you'd rather they be kept out of grow up informed, well-adjusted, intelligent and successful.

The actresses in candy-colored innocent Disney-fied childhoods?
Britney, Christina, Lindsay, Miley, Demi, Olson twins?...

“Cuties” filmmaker Maimouna Doucouré reacted to the backlash last week in an interview with Zora magazine, saying, “I realize that the people who have started this controversy haven’t yet seen the film. Netflix has apologized to the public and to myself. I’m hoping that these people will watch the movie now that it’s out. I’m eager to see their reaction when they realize that we’re both on the same side of this fight against young children’s hypersexualization.”

This just popped up in my news feed aggregator
(It's a WaPo article- if you'd rather save your "free" monthly articles be warned -I subscribe):
I directed ‘Cuties.’ This is what you need to know about modern girlhood.

She spent a year interviewing children about this subject after seeing exactly what is depicted in the film in a public performance.

Quote from: Snomaster1
There are ways of handling sensitive topics to kids without emotionally scarring them. I have no problem with those attempts and many of them are praiseworthy. What I'm against is the thinking that certain things must be forced on kids before they're ready to handle them,either emotionally or psychologically. For example,I'm not going to show either version of "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" to a five-year-old. It wouldn't be good for that kid and there's no need to do that.

Wait... do you think this is supposed to be a movie FOR kids? Do you maybe even think it has an English dub?
it's TV-MA - it's in French with subtitles. Some of it is in an untranslated Wolof language.

I think that's a little over-kill, but I don't think it should be  shown unsupervised. Not that many kids would want to watch a subtitled French drama.

It's not for "kids" but it could be appropriate for "Maturing kids" under supervision.

Do you still think it unrealistic? Or something that could not happen among "good parents?"

Did you notice when I said the dance was something she saw herself? In the same sort of public space. 11 year old girls, twerking, in a community festival.

How about where I mention that she spent a year interviewing girls and researching before writing it?

Did you really read that and come to the conclusion that this is someone who says ""We don't care about your concerns?"

She cared enough to spend a year going in depth in the subject, she combined it with her own experiences growing up like the main character (obviously not twerking but surely rebelling) and produces a moral lesson that agrees with yours

She cares a lot more than someone who won't even watch a trailer or seriously read a simple defense and then acts like he knows whats in it and repeats verifiable lies about the plot because it's what he wants to believe.

The truth is that there are slightly risque scenes in a movie for adults that focus on girl's butts. Guess what? Girls have butts! They are uncomfortable because they are supposed to be. They are supposed to make you think "this is bad" because it's a condemnation.

You don't make a crime movie without showing the crime. You don't have to go into full gore of a murder but you better know that person is dead.
This does not go too far for any REASONABLE watcher.... but you'd have to WATCH IT! Or a least LISTEN to those who have. 
It shows enough to make sure you know, without a doubt, it's wrong.

I'm absolutely perplexed with the idea that a movie that includes little girls twerking as a major plot point shouldn't show little girls twerking!

What else do you want? I've proved your plot descriptions are BS, that it's well intentioned, that its not for kids. That it's not marketed to them. That such themes are not unique. Shown that the actresses in such serious films are not typically "scarred"

Do you want me to say that lolicons or pedophiles could not be excited about these scenes out of context? Nope, can't say that. But there's a probable likelihood it wouldn't be anything special to one. They can find worse on Youtube.

You certainly found worse on Youtube.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 11:29:58 PM by Nonsuch Ned » my pants

Re: okay, why i watcvhed Cuties ande didn't have a problem
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 02:12:38 AM »


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Thread locked, while I usually don't care what people talk about on here this a subject might be better discussed else where. :siren:

won't delete since the above posted seemed to put a lot of work in  :eng101: