Useless Tenchi

After I watched the 3rd OVAs, I couldn't help but notice that a lot of fans hate it. There complaints usually come from the following
1. The execution of story was poor
2. the added characters are useless
3. the new developments( Tenchi being a god, Washu being a goddess, etc.) make no sense
4. It changed things established earlier
I can't help but notice they especially hate Noike. I really don't get the hate. What do you guys think?

They see Noike transplanting Kiyone, a character they liked, some of them rabidly.  That simple.  (No offense, I'm extremely rabid too for other characters.)

Here's the impasse: 

Kajishima spent 4 years before the OAVs even started developing this story and then all the years after it, including the 8-9 years between OAV2 and OAV3 developing the story.  And many years since then.  Since writing his novels, he's ahead of us (and I think a cause of OAV3's less than stellar storyline).  And other people pushed out 8 years of other "Tenchi" product, including Hasegawa's Kiyone Makibi, onto the market which he has no control of.  Kajishima comes back onto the scene and what he introduces doesn't fit people's perceptions because it's not like 75% of Tenchi out there.  This is aided and abetted by the East/West divide; Western fans have literally not seen the world of doujins/novels out there.  Not really anyone's fault, but he's just not making it for us anymore than J.K. Rowling wrote Harry Potter for the likes and tastes of Chinese fans (http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Amazing_Fake_%27Harry_Potter%27_Books_Written_In_China).  Oh well, the world doesn't revolve around us.

And it's not just MK's stuff.  All they know is mostly the anime and maybe the Okuda manga.  Add-on mangas like TMiL2: Eternal Memory, rattle people here, I know.  They declare it "not canon" to TU, in spite of being written by the same director, because they argue it's not in the movie, despite Japanese accepting different official media as canon unless told otherwise.

I see the fandom split into two major groups:

OAV fans.  They might like all or some of the OAV, but they generally don't make a big fuss in the world over it.  They don't want the OAV to become more like the other, later AUs.  (Mihoshi becoming more TU-like in OAV3 was bad enough for some.)

and

TU fans.  They like the characterization of TU (namely it being strictly a love triangle, Sasami being a simple little kid, Mihoshi being dumb and that's it) over OAV.  The one characterization I have never seen them quite fully embrace was the Washu being the incompetent mad scientist, half of whose attempts blow up - they fully and gladly take OAV Washu.  And guess what, they want the OAV-only elements too - Ryoko/Washu mother/daughter connection, maybe Tsunami, and that type of stuff.  Plunder all the "good" stuff but leave the TU/TMiL/TMiL2 plots in place for the most part. 

TU fans do the majority of complaining.  I would say the major hangup of 80% of them is that OAV3 wasn't about Ryoko, or Tenchi/Ryoko, and didn't have a major Tenchi/Ryoko theme at the end to make up for it.  Harem is a sin.  A "cop out" and all that.  If OAV3 had ended with a Tenchi/Ryoko kiss near the end, instead of a Tenchi/Misaki, all it's other failings would have been put in perspective, downplayed, and it proclaimed awesome despite the flaws.  My own opinion is that without the OAV, Tenchi is just another mediocre anime.

I know this is true.  For the longest time they worship at the altar of Hasegawa, for the simple fact that she's OAV1 scriptwriter and did the MnE movie (plus guest wrote the Mirei episode in TU but most don't know that).  Ryoko got major slapped by Tenchi in that movie, but it was all made good in the end because she got a big chunk of the ending (fight with the baddie and other stuff. 

Hasegawa became their patron saint, despite them not knowing anything else of her 13 novels (which was never translated).  From my own research, there are very few to no reviews out there on her stuff, and extremely little discussion.  From the pictures of the novels, and some limited synopsis, what she wrote makes my skin crawl.  Achika not being the sanitized figure of TMiL, but simply marrying Nobuyuki because he looked like her father, after she failed the Tenchi-ken test (pulling the sword from Funaho), permanently shortening her life, and the other man she loved left her while she was recovering and broke her heart.  Some woman paedophile chasing after Sasami in one book, another creep after Ayeka, Kiyone being dropped into a Ghost and Goblins D&D adventure as the entire basis for another novel.  Egads.  I think if those things were actually translated, people would be less than thrilled with the "Tenchi feel" she provides the series.

Because Tenchi is a shitty fucking fanbase here over seas. I don't even consider myself part of the fanbase honestly, and just consider myself a follower of Kajishima to be specific.


The End.

And yes, the japanese fanbase DO look at our asses like we are crazy. They don't get the shit either. Can't think of another fanbase who shits on its own creator as much as this one, except maybe Evangelion and Naruto at times.

After I watched the 3rd OVAs, I couldn't help but notice that a lot of fans hate it. There complaints usually come from the following
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24811427.jpg)

1. The execution of story was poor
Not really, with the exception of episode 5 the story flows rather nicely. In some ways OVA2 was more broken, as only a few of the episodes chained together and the final episode was originally meant to take place much later point in time.

2. the added characters are useless
To western fans, that'd be accurate. But to Japanese fans, it's a chance to see the character's they've read about since Kajishima released the first Shin-Tenchi Muyo! novel back in 1997. Plus most of those characters were introduced in GXP and would have played a greater part in OVA3, had AIC continued to fund the series.

3. the new developments( Tenchi being a god, Washu being a goddess, etc.) make no sense
I love that one. They always claim there was nothing to hint at Washu being a goddess, yet the silhouettes of Washu & Tsunami are shown behind Tokimi in Special 1 & OVA2. Gee, I cannot imagine why a "mad scientist" would be shown next to a known goddess and some woman who appears to have no physical body. HERP FUCKIN' DERP!
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120125114148/tenchi/images/a/aa/Tokimiyall.jpg)

4. It changed things established earlier
What are these "established things" you speak of? Kiyone Makibi never officially existed in TM!R and do you really want Tenchi to be responsible for his mothers death? In Hawegawa's novel Tenchi's "power" accidentally activated and it killed her. Hawegawa's Tenchi also slaps bitches and relies on cheap gimmicks like a knockoff Christmas, guest appearances by Slayers rejects, the stuck in a video game angle, etc. Sounds like a great world...  ::)
(http://s10.postimage.org/yywr1qa5l/slapped.gif)

I can't help but notice they especially hate Noike. I really don't get the hate. What do you guys think?
Because it's not their Universe Kiyone Makibi, you know the one who was clearly not interested in Tenchi and everyone made gay jokes about.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/154aljn.jpg)

Quote from: shades of blue on November 07, 2012, 11:30:52 PM1. The execution of story was poor
Not really, with the exception of episode 5 the story flows rather nicely. In some ways OVA2 was more broken, as only a few of the episodes chained together and the final episode was originally meant to take place much later point in time.

In OAV3ep1, the flashbacks were extremely jarring, especially the clashing styles, and I could have gone without the whole thing.  This would be my biggest complaint.

Yea, I've seen these all before, This is usually how I answer em...

1. The execution of story was poor
Well I guess OVA 2 was poor too, considering OVA 3 followed the exact same concept as 2. Introduce new characters(even introduced Clay in the final 3 episodes JUST like Misao), incorporate them into the plot and interact with the Main cast. OVA 2 even got the SAME last episodes info dump when explaining why Clay wanted Washu and how Jurai wanted Ryoko clones, just not has harsh as 3's...

Ova 2 new characters: Clay, Zero, Misaki, Funaho, Asuza, Tokimi

Ova 3 new characters who did NOT have a significant part in GXP: Tennyo, Noike, Kagato-chan, Misao, Mashisu, Z

That's LITERALLY just one more character than OVA 2 not including Tokimi.


2. the added characters are useless
this usually weeds out a TU fan as Jibs mentions, considering they barely pay attention to the story. 9 times out of 10, these are the same ones always asking questions.....that's been answered already.

Noike is literally connected to Kagato (and indirectly Naja) in a significant way (check out my Noike explanation thread), Seto Tennyo and Airi are important to the GXP world (again which most TU fans barely even watched, if at all) and Z did everything he did because he was trying to HELP Tenchi. Poor guy just didn't realize that Tenchi doesn't need the help. And the Kuramitsu's are a big piece of the story, because of politics. Misao and Mashisu are literally the reason Jurai and Seniwa has a stronger bond now, and that's before Mihoshi has to marry Tenchi.

3. the new developments( Tenchi being a god, Washu being a goddess, etc.) make no sense
Once again, people just not paying attention to shit. We found out from episode 6 that Tenchi is no normal person. We get a detailed explanation that LHW's being developed by ANYTHING other than a ship is JUST NOT NORMAL. We are also told EXPLICITLY that this power is the manifestation of the goddesses power. So if LHWs are the goddesses power, and Tenchi can MAKE HIS OWN, DAFUQ you think Kajishima is hinting at? And If Washu being a goddesses makes no sense, you completely missed the ENTIRE POINT of the OVA series. No, this story is not about 7 people in the Masaki house, they are just the catalyst. Its all about the Goddesses plan, procedure, results and conclusion. They ARE the plot, literally.


4. It changed things established earlier
Yea I hear this one too....

"Ryoko was made a bitch": That's what happens when you introduce something called character development. You'd think a Ryoko fan would like this. She became closer to Ryo-ohki, showed she was significantly more aware of what was happening around her (thanks to fusing with Zero) and directly challenged the entire concept of arranged marriages to the heads of Jurai and Seinwa (in their face), the same chick who at first didn't care about anything but destruction. People getting butthurt when Ryoko should receive a damn medal. She was the pinnacle of character development of this series. But you want to waste time complaining about some damn ears....REALLY? Nah, they want the mean ass bitchy Ryoko who acts immature and fucks shit up.

Other than that, its usually subjective shit like the art and music that gets ragged. Do yourself a favor and compare OVA 3 art to other 2003 anime. Blows that shit out the water. And who in the fuck is gonna use Cel frames? Nigga this not 1999 anymore. Got to catch up with the times folks. We are digital now.

Now does OVA 3 has its flaws? No doubt. Is it not as good as OVA 1+2? No doubt. But its nowhere near this monstrosity most complain it to be unless they specifically didn't get something they wanted, this usually is either a Kiyone fan or Ryoko shipper who's the most vocal.

But time and time again, it shows that its just people letting their nostalgia get in the way of properly judging a Show. Unbiased people who watch the entire OVA series in one run never have these same issues as the old head Toonami fans do.

Myanimelist Ratings...

Ova 1 rating: 7.84 out of 10 from 13,547 viewers

Ova 2 rating: 7.87 out of 10 from 8, 691 viewers

Ova 3 rating 7.50 out of 10 from 6,660 viewers

That's a 0.34 difference from the first OVA, no where near enough to be acting like the shit was the plague.

The reason the old heads get annoying is because they act like the old ex girlfriend who just can't get over it. I can name about 4-5 people here off the top of my head that don't necessarily hold OVA 3 to a high place, but you don't see them squeezing in a bitch fit every other week. I don't see Jibs making a thread every chance she gets to explain the things she didn't like. I dont' see Gaston making threads all the about how Kajishima is a idiot and should give the series to someone else. Hell, I don't even see myself making Kiyone bashing threads, because its a waste of TIME.

Can't even have a damn discussion with the fanbase because if it ain't about fanart, roleplaying or character threads, they could give a shit. Its a damn shame that the fanbase has to literally split into cliques over this shit and constantly talk shit about the other side...its just some damn anime. Ain't like we fighting over pussy or some money or some shit....Nah....some Tenchi shit.

The reason I get ticked off is because if you wanted to talk about something plotwise, you can't because people either won't know, won't care to find out, and then find the opportunity to start complaining, when the info is right in front of you. I was LITERALLY able to find out Noike is Kagato, how and why it happened from listening to Washu speak. That's all I had to do. But nah, they only care about the 7 masaki household members doing random pointless shit in a ship in outerspace looking for money and shit leading to the one dimensional bad guy getting beat in the most convential shounen way....sigh.

Well, I'd give a more responsive... response, except there is a lot of wall of text above me that I'm currently too lazy to read. My fault for being lazy. ;)

I'll give my thoughts about it then. :D

One issue was the time between OVA2 and OVA3. This meant undue hype that, no matter how good OVA3 was, made it difficult to live up to. But that's for long time Tenchi Fans. Newers ones? Well... while I like OVA3...

1. The execution of story was poor
Over all, I will say I was disappointed with OVA 3 story execution. But I don't hate it. I just thought that it held a lot of potential that, because of length restrictions (not, at least less, the fault of Kajishima and more the limited budget and limited amount of episodes he was given), just didn't feel right flow wise. For me, the first 5 episodes of so, which had flashback, info dump, and the introduction (at least for the anime) of Mihoshi's brother and love interest antics felt, filleresque I guess. The info dump part might have been a necessity given again, the limited amount of time he had to work with. But that's stuff that, IMO, works better either drawn out in a visual medium, or something that is better as a novel. I was especially disappointed with the Choushin War since it was, for all intent and purpose, relegated to only one episode. While the antics of the brother got a few more.

Again, I don't blame Kajishima, but what he was forced to work with. Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou suffered the same problem. Tons of awesome story perfect for 24-26 episodes... crammed into 13 instead with side OVAs at the end (which never got finished because the company making the anime went under. But that's another series talk for another day~).

2. the added characters are useless
I admit, I'm one of those people that got annoyed that it wasn't the Kiyone we knew. But Noike instead. The first time I heard about her. However, older, more educated, I now realize she's an integral part of the OVA timeline that, and this is again another slash against Western fans of Tenchi Muyo, were unable to realize since we don't get the True Tenchi Novels here.

Mihoushi's brother (even forgot the name.  ;D) I kind of saw less reason to dedicate the number of episodes for him. But at the same time, didn't think he was useless per say. I may have preferred a more side story role for him in like, maybe a manga or a spinoff OVA instead of it being in the big 'OVA 3' series. But I have nothing against him generally speaking.

The other characters were seen if you have watched GXP. And you could say were developed in that series. Which again, hurts WESTERN Tenchi Muyo fan's discovery of Noike since, while you do get her back story, it might have felt to most WESTERN fans that this somehow an ass pull to get a new character in the show. That 'usurps' the mainstays. Again, due to things like not having the True Tenchi Novels translated and these Tenchi Muyo fans being 'casuals' that only watched the anime. Probably not realizing that Tenchi Universe or those movies aren't a part of that timeline. ::)

3. the new developments( Tenchi being a god, Washu being a goddess, etc.) make no sense
Tenchi Muyo to me was always a complicated series. Even more I discovered websites that explained, or tried to explain all the connections and theories. Though I can understand casual fans that want things simple and easy to understand packages not liking it. Well, I'm not one of them.

4. It changed things established earlier
I guess I can see where someone could say that. But since I've always known the series to be a huge complex universe, it didn't occur to me that something might have 'changed'.

So in conclusion... OVA 3 was still good series. Flawed? Yes. Good as the first two OVAs? Nope even if I take off my Nostalgia glasses and try to judge the first two with today's standards, would still go with the first two. But my complaints isn't so much rage that OVA 3 gets in these 'debates', but more disappointment. However, just seeing the characters again and in that timeline still makes me squeal like a little girl. And I'd be there Day 1 if OVA 4 was ever made.

Agree with what a lot of Simmy said. Its one thing being disappointed by certain parts, but when people are making statements like "This show completely ruined my experience with Tenchi and I still to this days get mad about it"....You need to go find some hobbies lol.

If I could make some reasonable changes to OVA 3....

-Tell AIC to STFU and give Kaji the original number of episodes he wanted to do. The DVD sales were clearly decent, so you have no reason to cut it. ISM clearly showed us Kaji can wrap a series up nicely if you give him the time he wants.

-Keep the Misao x Mashisu plot, but use this plot to dive into the explanation for what we all want to know, Mihoshi's past.

-Connect as close as you can to Isekai, around the time period during the Noike x Tenchi doujin would be good.

-Like Jibs mentioned, cut the 1st episode recap. I know its been a while, but the real fans shouldn't need it.

-Don't cut the scene with Tenchi and Kagato/Noike seeing Misaki in the future. Would do a great deal helping to explain the dynamic.

-Try to better incorporate GXP elements, like actually showing a present Seina/Kiriko cameo to better wrap GXP in OVA canon.

-Do a flashback scene with doing a comparison of what Tenchi thought was his mom was, and what she really was. Would do a better job of showing the dynamic of why Tenchi used false perception of his past with his mom.

-Probably should have shown some past Tennyo, specifically in her brown hair form to show she WAS around and we the audience just weren't aware.

Wow, you guys forgot the most egregious sin of all...  ;)

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100412062224/southpark/images/d/d5/MonaMarshall.jpg)

I though Mona Marshall was okay.  :P About, ova 3, I am not a big fan of it but I don't think it is the worst. The only problem start with episode 18 who focus on Mashiru and Misao which I don't care about and episode 19 should have been done in two episodes at least.

BTW, I always found funny people said Tenchi being the god coming from nowhere. What he did with the black hole in ova 2 was not clear he is very 'special' ? I also remember people complaining how Ryoko was slap by others characters, but apparently when it is MIsaki who did it in ova 2 it is apparently okay.  ::)

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on November 07, 2012, 10:34:45 PM
Can't think of another fanbase who shits on its own creator as much as this one, except maybe Evangelion and Naruto at times.

The dude who created Bleach is not a punching-ball too ?

Quote from: Gaston on November 08, 2012, 04:41:48 AM

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on November 07, 2012, 10:34:45 PM
Can't think of another fanbase who shits on its own creator as much as this one, except maybe Evangelion and Naruto at times.

The dude who created Bleach is not a punching-ball too ?

If 4chan is anything to go by, he's only an internet punching bag for everyone that hates Bleach. The ones still reading/watching Bleach don't seem to realize he's an idiot or want to acknowledge it. When confronted with the fact that Kubo wrote for the longest time with no regard to future events, because he did not know about story mapping til very much later in the series, ask for sources.

Lots of good stuff in here I want new members to see.

Quote from: shades of blue on November 07, 2012, 11:30:52 PM
And Tenchi being a "god" was meant to be a secret, so obviously there would not be any hints.

Actually, we did get hints about that in OAV 2. When Tenchi reversed the power of that black hole, he was said to have "changed the gravitational constant" in order to do it. So, in layman's terms, he changed the laws of physics to his own personal whim. Pretty big hint about his true nature. Not that you can tell that to the haters.

Quote from: shades of blue on November 07, 2012, 11:30:52 PM
After I watched the 3rd OVAs, I couldn't help but notice that a lot of fans hate it. There complaints usually come from the following
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24811427.jpg)

1. The execution of story was poor
Not really, with the exception of episode 5 the story flows rather nicely. In some ways OVA2 was more broken, as only a few of the episodes chained together and the final episode was originally meant to take place much later point in time.

2. the added characters are useless
To western fans, that'd be accurate. But to Japanese fans, it's a chance to see the character's they've read about since Kajishima released the first Shin-Tenchi Muyo! novel back in 1997. Plus most of those characters were introduced in GXP and would have played a greater part in OVA3, had AIC continued to fund the series.

3. the new developments( Tenchi being a god, Washu being a goddess, etc.) make no sense
I love that one. They always claim there was nothing to hint at Washu being a goddess, yet the silhouettes of Washu & Tsunami are shown behind Tokimi in Special 1 & OVA2. Gee, I cannot imagine why a "mad scientist" would be shown next to a known goddess and some woman who appears to have no physical body. HERP FUCKIN' DERP!
And Tenchi being a "god" was meant to be a secret, so obviously there would not be any hints.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120125114148/tenchi/images/a/aa/Tokimiyall.jpg)

4. It changed things established earlier
What are these "established things" you speak of? Kiyone Makibi never officially existed in TM!R and do you really want Tenchi to be responsible for his mothers death? In Hawegawa's novel Tenchi's "power" accidentally activated and it killed her. Hawegawa's Tenchi also slaps bitches and relies on cheap gimmicks like a knockoff Christmas, guest appearances by Slayers rejects, the stuck in a video game angle, etc. Sounds like a great world...  ::)
(http://s10.postimage.org/yywr1qa5l/slapped.gif)

I can't help but notice they especially hate Noike. I really don't get the hate. What do you guys think?
Because it's not their Universe Kiyone Makibi, you know the one who was clearly not interested in Tenchi and everyone made gay jokes about.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/154aljn.jpg)

these aren't my reasons, they're just the usual excuses I hear. Just wanted to clarify that

Quote from: SimmyC on November 08, 2012, 01:01:07 AM
1. The execution of story was poor
Over all, I will say I was disappointed with OVA 3 story execution. But I don't hate it. I just thought that it held a lot of potential that, because of length restrictions (not, at least less, the fault of Kajishima and more the limited budget and limited amount of episodes he was given), just didn't feel right flow wise. For me, the first 5 episodes of so, which had flashback, info dump, and the introduction (at least for the anime) of Mihoshi's brother and love interest antics felt, filleresque I guess. The info dump part might have been a necessity given again, the limited amount of time he had to work with. But that's stuff that, IMO, works better either drawn out in a visual medium, or something that is better as a novel. I was especially disappointed with the Choushin War since it was, for all intent and purpose, relegated to only one episode. While the antics of the brother got a few more.

Again, I don't blame Kajishima, but what he was forced to work with.

I agree with most of this post but Idk if I quite accept that last line.  Every OAV episode is precious.  Every one.  You just shouldn't waste time on frivolous things.  And Kajishima was given 6-7 to work with, totally in line with the norm of the show up to then.  Mashisu was frivolous, character development of a tertiary character.  I thought it was very qoot that Mihoshi has a younger brother, it added some depth to her.  I like Misao a lot (younger form, not grown up form).  In fact, if Mihoshi doesn't get Tenchi, I would have paired her with him.  But I cared 0 about Mashisu and I still don't get why I should.

There were other problems.  One of the biggest irks for me is Rea claiming she was a huge part of Tenchi's life.  Yet we don't see her or hear about her until OAV3.  I would much rather hear the claim that Nobuyuki hid her and their relationship than anything - perhaps due to Tenchi's devotion to his mother.  Tenchi isn't supposed to have had women in his life, it would explain part of him, being raised by only men, having that look of yearning for a family when Funaho confronts him in episode 13 - about taking Sasami and Ayeka away and if he wants to come with.

Info dumps are not ever necessary imo.  It's the exact antithesis of story telling.  A lot of story telling is the journey from information point to information point, in presenting it, in playing the audience.  So much of propaganda is the narration, because that's telling a story.  Info dumps have no narrative.  If we were talking science, yes, but we're talking fictional worlds here.

Pressed for time, I would have made the episodes less ambitious, and slapped an indefinite "To be continued...." on there rather than info dump.  The time to have plot elements with a list of bullet points is in a doujin.  I don't think the case can be made that OAV3 has the natural flow of OAV1/2.  It just doesn't.

Now, I'm not going to hate on MK, I can only hope the next OAV, if ever, is better.  Because Seikishi Monogatari has the flow again, to a large extent with much less info dumping.

Quote from: Empress of Jurai on November 08, 2012, 11:06:13 AM
these aren't my reasons, they're just the usual excuses I hear. Just wanted to clarify that

I'm aware of that. If I thought they were, I would have gone through the trouble of making each part a quoted line, instead of simply highlighting them in bold. :)

Quote from: جبريل 無道 on November 08, 2012, 11:06:58 AM

You just shouldn't waste time on frivolous things.

This is where artistic license imo comes into hand. Kajishima lets us know that the Kuramitsu family is pretty important to him, and in essence is a reflection of Kajishima's own life and family. People always talk about how they think Tenchi is Kaji's fantasy role, but I think Kaji actually visualizes himself within the Kuramitsu's somewhere. So for him to put so much emphasis on caring about them, I think its a case of what you consider frivolous he considers an essential element to his story. That and he's let us know for a LONG time (since 93) this was one of his most anticipated arcs. Kaji finally getting the complete freedom after Watanabe directed GXP probably made him fanboy his excitement in finally being able to animate a piece he's looked forward to doing for an entire decade.

I'm tempted to even say Misao IS Kaji's self-reflection here. From going from the Siscon immature brat to the very mature and laid back general we see in GXP, that looks exactly like something Kaji would go through. Hell, he even made a eerily similar looking character in Anata Dake that Shades can vouch for, who was banging JUST as many (maybe even more) girls as the protagonist himself. Talk about wish fulfillment  :P :P :P

QuoteAnd Kajishima was given 6-7 to work with, totally in line with the norm of the show up to then.  Mashisu was frivolous, character development of a tertiary character.

I actually DON'T think 6-7 episodes is enough TBH. Even if you split OVA 1 and 2, I think individually they would still work, but feel kinda incomplete compared to how we usually pair them together as 13 episodes. But looking at GXP and ISM which both essentially have 26 30 min episodes, I think he's learned his lesson in setting appropriate time management. Hell, he sounded pretty butthurt for AIC fucking with shit in his afterword in Tenchi x Noike Omake.

QuoteThere were other problems.  One of the biggest irks for me is Rea claiming she was a huge part of Tenchi's life.  Yet we don't see her or hear about her until OAV3.  I would much rather hear the claim that Nobuyuki hid her and their relationship than anything - perhaps due to Tenchi's devotion to his mother.  Tenchi isn't supposed to have had women in his life, it would explain part of him, being raised by only men, having that look of yearning for a family when Funaho confronts him in episode 13 - about taking Sasami and Ayeka away and if he wants to come with.

I agree with you that Rea just popping in does seem a bit misplaced, but I give her leeway since she is pretty much just here to give Kenshi a way up in here. I compare it to the Vegeta x Bulma relationship in DBZ where you're left scratching your head like "What the fuck?", but in the end, the results produced positive feedback in the long run, which in our case was Kenshi's adventure. Its a little better we can familiarize ourselves with Kenshi's parents in advance compared to watching ISM and going "Who in the hell did Nobuyuki sleep with?". I also think her potential plotwise is FAAARRRRRRR greater in ISM compared to Tenchi, as does Kaji since he has added new developments such as her being the missing artificial human and sister of Rea/Lea and Doll/Mexiah

QuoteInfo dumps are not ever necessary imo.  It's the exact antithesis of story telling.  A lot of story telling is the journey from information point to information point, in presenting it, in playing the audience.  So much of propaganda is the narration, because that's telling a story.  Info dumps have no narrative.  If we were talking science, yes, but we're talking fictional worlds here.

Not necessarily a fan of them either, but I compare it to complaining about the sauce on a Big Mac. No matter how much you hate it, its been here forever and just part of the entire sandwich. But I once again forgive Kaji for episode 20's info dump. He had to squeeze possibly 4-5 more episodes of revelation into 30 mins, all of which wasn't his choice at all.

QuotePressed for time, I would have made the episodes less ambitious, and slapped an indefinite "To be continued...." on there rather than info dump

As your fellow sekirei fan, I can tell you I absolutely hate this type of ending, especially since you don't know if you will even have the funds TO continue. Its been 2 years now, and we still haven't heard a WORD about sekirei season 3, and might not ever. For Kaji it's even worse because he didn't have the fall back plan like anime companies and just adapt another series. This literally is make it or break it for him, so might as well get as much info out as you can in case you don't ever get a chance to make a continuation, which unfortunately might be the case here for the OVA series.  :-[

QuoteI don't think the case can be made that OAV3 has the natural flow of OAV1/2.  It just doesn't.

Go even deeper and say OVA 2 or 3 didn't have the natural flow OVA 1 did. Although I Love Kaji, OVA 1 makes it VERY clear how much better a project can be with multiple intellects compared to just one. Now THAT had a very balanced flow and natural progression. You had one theme, meet a new character and watch how Tenchi responds. That lasted ALL the way until episode 6 with him meeting Washu. When OVA 2 responds, as Shades mentioned, we start to see uneven flow in the story. We go from a Washu reflection arc, to a Tsunami arc, to a Zero Ryoko/Clay arc, to end with a Jurai arc. That's almost as bad as OVA 3. That's why when I argue against OVA 3 bashers, I always compare to OVA 2, because OVA 2 and 3 almost LITERALLY match up episode to episode in plot flow and progression. Even all the way down to the bonus episode.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on November 08, 2012, 12:12:19 PM

QuotePressed for time, I would have made the episodes less ambitious, and slapped an indefinite "To be continued...." on there rather than info dump

As your fellow sekirei fan, I can tell you I absolutely hate this type of ending, especially since you don't know if you will even have the funds TO continue. Its been 2 years now, and we still haven't heard a WORD about sekirei season 3, and might not ever. For Kaji it's even worse because he didn't have the fall back plan like anime companies and just adapt another series. This literally is make it or break it for him, so might as well get as much info out as you can in case you don't ever get a chance to make a continuation, which unfortunately might be the case here for the OVA series.  :-[

As an amateur fanfic author and avid fanfiction reader, my perspective is that stories are never really finished, the author just stops telling it after a certain point.  I guess one can argue clean break.  Like OAVep6 or ep7 was a clean break, and OAVep13-13.5 left too many threads hanging and was a "To be continued type thing..."

I really don't mind either style over info dumps.  I'll take it that MK probably knew it was the last OAV and was setting up for Sekirei and connecting dots to GXP.  But if Japanese really do consider other media (like doujin) part of the continuity and a must have for a real fan -- then I don't see the need to bring it into the anime.  Plus the things to set up Saint Knight didn't need so much info, just Rea's appearance and wedding to Nobuyuki.

QuoteAs your fellow sekirei fan, I can tell you I absolutely hate this type of ending, especially since you don't know if you will even have the funds TO continue.

I think Sakurako Gokurakuin has the opposite problem of MK.  MK seems to have a lot of energy and wants to do everything.   Sakurako seems lazy.

I have to agree with most of the above. Especially looking at it from a story perspective AND the medium for which series X is in. When i said I 'don't blame Kajishima', I really meant to say that I don't blame him for wanting to, at least try to maintain his vision of the series. That being said, he was given a specific number of episodes to work with, and so, should have adjusted to that.

My previous example of Daimaou, the issue was it gave us so much info in such a limited amount of time to work with, could have been addressed in a number of ways. It was based on a light novel so it had a ton of material and story to work with. If they had hope that there could be like, a season 2, they could have left it as a cliffhanger. But if they knew that the chance of a season 2 was unlikely, the other way that could have helped the series was... cut out material. Instead, they tried to fit everything into a 13 episode format which made the series feel very rushed.

If I blame Kajishima of anything, it was that he failed to compromise on the material that would have made OVA3 flowed better. Leave the important stuff in, or stuff I thought would be more significant like the Choushin Wars, while reducing/eliminating the more fillereseque parts. Remove the recap entirely since you could simply say, hey, just watch OVA 1 and 2 instead. And stuff that, would have been better as a side story or added as supplementary material in say, a light novel as opposed to trying to force it into the OVA knowing how limited even 45 minutes could be in telling a story in the visual medium.

The thing that got me the most was that Ryoko's & Mihoshi's original English voice actress didn't come back, those voices are just so ingrained into my memory for those characters, anyone else doing them just sounds wrong, i guess other quips would be the unnecessary flashbacks, the lack in back story for Mihoshi, and just lack of more episodes haha. I love it though, OVA is the best series for me

Quote from: Eric3285 on November 13, 2012, 09:50:39 PM
The thing that got me the most was that Ryoko's & Mihoshi's original English voice actress didn't come back, those voices are just so ingrained into my memory for those characters, anyone else doing them just sounds wrong, i guess other quips would be the unnecessary flashbacks, the lack in back story for Mihoshi, and just lack of more episodes haha. I love it though, OVA is the best series for me

Ryoko and Mihoshi's voice actor not being there I think was a funimation issue (the jap. version has all the original though!). also the flashbacks and lack of Mihoshi's back story I agree with as well,

Yeah, that is true, sucks Funimation couldn't get those two back also, i personally do prefer the dubbed version

Once again you guys have ruined my life by saying everything I could ever want to say about this topic... loooong before I got to the thread.
Well, at least I know I'm not alone. >_>

I have read  the previous replies before I had written mine.  For me,  OVA 3 was more like a prelude to GXP.  I did like the part of the story which focus on the Chousin Sisters.  OVA 3 had left me with more questions than answers.

If there is an OVA 4, I hope that Tenchi is starting to show more intimate feelings towrds Ayeka, Ryoko and Noike.  For most of OVA 3,  Tenchi wants to focus more  on studying and how to manage his emerging powers.  Strangely by GXP episodes 16 and 17, Tenchi had  already accepted  the fact that he is going to have a harem.

:end: :woot:

Quote from: takahata on January 12, 2013, 01:24:22 PM
I have read  the previous replies before I had written mine.  For me,  OVA 3 was more like a prelude to GXP.  I did like the part of the story which focus on the Chousin Sisters.  OVA 3 had left me with more questions than answers.

If there is an OVA 4, I hope that Tenchi is starting to show more intimate feelings towrds Ayeka, Ryoko and Noike.  For most of OVA 3,  Tenchi wants to focus more  on studying and how to manage his emerging powers.  Strangely by GXP episodes 16 and 17, Tenchi had  already accepted  the fact that he is going to have a harem.

:end: :woot:

Keep in mind a few years had pasted since the end of OVA 3 by the time of episodes 16 and 17.

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on January 12, 2013, 01:32:44 PM

Quote from: takahata on January 12, 2013, 01:24:22 PM
I have read  the previous replies before I had written mine.  For me,  OVA 3 was more like a prelude to GXP.  I did like the part of the story which focus on the Chousin Sisters.  OVA 3 had left me with more questions than answers.

If there is an OVA 4, I hope that Tenchi is starting to show more intimate feelings towrds Ayeka, Ryoko and Noike.  For most of OVA 3,  Tenchi wants to focus more  on studying and how to manage his emerging powers.  Strangely by GXP episodes 16 and 17, Tenchi had  already accepted  the fact that he is going to have a harem.

:end: :woot:

Keep in mind a few years had pasted since the end of OVA 3 by the time of episodes 16 and 17.

That is incorrect, by GXP EP17 only around 6 months have passed since OVA3 ended. I say this because OVA3 indirectly tells you when Seina's story began and Seina spent an entire semester in space, which is roughly 6 months. But don't feel bad, a lot of people have been feed misinformation about when GXP begins & how much time has passed.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/742/gxptimeframev2.jpg)

Quote from: shades of blue on January 12, 2013, 03:59:25 PM
That is incorrect, by GXP EP17 only around 6 months have passed since OVA3 ended. I say this because OVA3 indirectly tells you when Seina's story began and Seina spent an entire semester in space, which is roughly 6 months. But don't feel bad, a lot of people have been feed misinformation about when GXP begins & how much time has passed.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/742/gxptimeframev2.jpg)

Oh my mistake. at what point in the OVA are we when Episode 1 of GXP takes place then?

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on January 12, 2013, 04:06:20 PM

Quote from: shades of blue on January 12, 2013, 03:59:25 PM
That is incorrect, by GXP EP17 only around 6 months have passed since OVA3 ended. I say this because OVA3 indirectly tells you when Seina's story began and Seina spent an entire semester in space, which is roughly 6 months. But don't feel bad, a lot of people have been feed misinformation about when GXP begins & how much time has passed.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/742/gxptimeframev2.jpg)

Oh my mistake. at what point in the OVA are we when Episode 1 of GXP takes place then?

look at that image again.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7598/demonking.jpg)

Quote
look at that image again.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7598/demonking.jpg)

Oh I get it now  :blush:

Ooohhh.... that's a good anime to pull a screenshot from.  Props to you.






...and I don't get it.

Quote from: For Washuu on January 13, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
Ooohhh.... that's a good anime to pull a screenshot from.  Props to you.






...and I don't get it.

First: Oh Snap, you watched Demon King Daimao too? That's my SH%T!!

Second: Mihoshi says Amane mentioned a GXP booklet which was on OVA 3 episode 5. Amane actually comes to Tenchi's house in GXP episode 1. So basically what Shades is inferring is that GXP starts around episode 5 of OVA 3.

The bottom also lets you know the time span from OVA 1 episode 1 to GXP episode 17 has been 2 years. So in essence, the entire OVA time frame not including ISM has roughly been 2 years.

Ah.  Right!

And as for Daimao... I'd say it's my third favorite anime, tying with Nadesico and following Dual and the Tenchi-verse.
Then again, if I count all of the Tenchi-verse/Kaji-verse, Daimao would be tie for second..

Aw, what the crap.  BRO-FIST!
Truth be told, the anime I am writing is HEAVILY influenced by both I SM and IUnD.

Edit:   that sig...
:staredog:

Someone just sent this confession into my tenchiconfessions tumblr blog in response to a confession about not understanding people's problems with Noike:

For that last confession about Noike, I can tell you what the problem with Noike is. She was a LOT more invasive than Kiyone. When Kiyone joined the cast, she melded into the group easily.  Some episodes featured her, but she was part of the cast, just like everyone else.

Noike got introduced and immediately took front and center. She was introduced as Tenchi's fiancee, which was a lie, but it was still irritating.  The show pretty much became the Noike show after she was introduced. To the point where the other girls literally couldn't function and run the household without Noike's intervention anymore. WTF?

And maybe this entire thing would have easier to swallow (not much, but a bit) if we hadn't been waiting 10 years to see OVA 3, only to have it focus on..not the characters we already loved...but a bunch of new people, including Noike. It was annoying.

And on a shallow note, Noike is hideous compared to Kiyone.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on January 15, 2013, 06:51:55 PM
To the point where the other girls literally couldn't function and run the household without Noike's intervention anymore. WTF?

They weren't functioning around the household in the first place.  :smug:

MAN FUCK that dumb---nah just playing. On a serious note....

It gets messy because like the poster said, that 10 year wait really does put pressure on adjusting to the new. You've had 10 years of cosplay, fanart, fanclubs, fansites, threads and other stuff about Kiyone, so it makes logical sense that fans of hers get rubbed the wrong way when not only she is replaced, but by someone who does share some qualities with Kiyone. Hell I know I'd be mad as fuck if Gogeta from dragonball Z (who is officially not canon) was replaced by a canon fusion made by Akira himself.

First to correct the poster, the engagement is no doubt real. Noike was put under the pretense of it just being a ruse, but its still very real on paper. That and the fact that Seto is called the matchmaker for a reason, she knows what she's doing. As far as Kiyone melding with the group, I consider it just personal preference. Personally for me, Kiyone was a nobody, a space filler. She barely interacted with Tenchi and the only time she was significant was if it had to do with Mihoshi. I feel that not only wasted someone Kiyone could have been, but also brought down Mihoshi's character. The charm about Mihoshi has always been that even while always messing shit up, she ALWAYS found a way. You lose that with Kiyone because Mihoshi becomes a dependent who is considered useless on her own.

As far as aesthetic appeal, many of the folks here will tell you I absolutely love Noike with her long hair. Easily one of the most beautiful characters on the show for me. The buzz has taken time to get use to, but she's still a cute girl. With Kiyone, iunno, just ain't really feeling the headband and 80s workout gym look.

As far as the girls not being able to run a house without Noike, they've NEVER ran that house before her efficiently. Hell, Tenchi fell out from the flu and every single girl was down his throat instead of giving him rest, to the point of Washu having to raise her voice, something she usually NEVER does. She also earned Ryoko's respect, cause lets be honest, Ryoko was just planning on punking her ass to the point of her screaming out the house and wanting to never return, it just didn't work though. (Ryoko fans probably going "Damn that would have been awesome") I've also said a bunch of times that I just prefer the overall order she brought to the house. Otherwise it would have just been To Love Ru: Tenchi edition, and yea, I can't stand TLR cause Rito is a bitch, man the fuck up.

So basically....it is what it is. You either just accept what you got or just keep complaining. But we should all know Kaji is gonna do whatever the fuck he wants, cause he's a boss. I just never felt it was a big deal, then again, I got other stuff to complain about, like Lebron James....Now I have no problem admitting I'm a hater for his bitch ass....

Tenchi Ryu, I'm gonna post that, if ya don't mind.

No problamo...

On another note, I just re-watched the entire OVA yesterday and I just like OVA 3 more and more each time I watch it.

Yea, it gets a lot of unfair bias. One of the issues IMO is that a good number of Tenchi fans aren't necessarily anime fans, or at least watch anime (especially current anime after 2007) in usual doses. Therefore they don't really have anything to judge it on besides Tenchi stuff, and that automatically is unfair since by now, someone tends to bend in favor towards a certain style of Tenchi any, either OVA, Universe or even Tokyo.

But OVA 3 is still a quality Kajishima production and curb stomps a lot of general anime, especially harem titles. One thing I love is that while Tenchi did have a school setting, Kaji quickly took that out of the equation and used more original setups. He also didn't use the cliche "character templates" where compared to most harems nowadays, you know you tend to have certain types of girls: The Tsundere, Genki girl, pink haired ditz, etc.

After awhile, you just realize that you just can't please everyone, and just gotta move on. People are gonna like what they like and hate what they hate, so in the end its just best to group up with people who share the same interest. Though I have to admit its nice to be around folks I can discuss something OVA 3 related and not have to get the shitstorm umbrella.

http://tenchiconfessions.tumblr.com/post/40731289266/i-honestly-prefer-tenchi-in-tokyo-to-the-3rd-ova

...Oh.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on January 15, 2013, 11:37:44 PM
But OVA 3 is still a quality Kajishima production and curb stomps a lot of general anime, especially harem titles. One thing I love is that while Tenchi did have a school setting, Kaji quickly took that out of the equation and used more original setups. He also didn't use the cliche "character templates" where compared to most harems nowadays, you know you tend to have certain types of girls: The Tsundere, Genki girl, pink haired ditz, etc.

Hai, Haaaaii! ^_^
One of my top five reasons to watch Tenchi is the characters' individuality.  For every era of anime, there seems to be the overly stereotypical characters, not only in personality but even in appearance!
For example, if you take Osaka from Azumanga Daioh and remove her over-sized eyes, you have a pallet for dozens of anime characters.  If you have the outline of Sai Akuto from Ichiban Ushiro no Daimo, you also have the outline for a couple other anime protagonists.
But...  Ryoko.  Who in the world am I supposed to confuse her with, visually?  InuYasha??
Ayeka, I have never seen the likes of; Mihoshi was one of the first examples of the Dark-Skinned Blond trope.  Sasami is cited as one of the most recognizable anime characters ever (possibly only less so than Usagi/Sailor Moon).  And then Noike cuts her hair! XD

And OVA 3 was literally the first anime I ever saw.  I mean... Elliot's very first moment of anime...
there's Ryoko taking the 17-year-old's anime virginity... just like that...
(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l625/Elisnow17/asdf-1.jpg)


Good Lord, I lost it.  Sorry.  Praise-rant over.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on January 15, 2013, 10:40:01 PM
On another note, I just re-watched the entire OVA yesterday and I just like OVA 3 more and more each time I watch it.

Yea, I'm going through another marathon run and on OVA 3 now. One thing I find interesting again is in the first episode during Nobuyuki and Yosho's chat at the grave site.

I knew they wanted to wait until the right time, but its shown that Nobuyuki didn't really want to do it. You can understand where he comes from cause he probably knows Tenchi sees his mother as something she isn't and that will upset him. He really is a caring father. Yosho then comments he believes Kiyone is finally happy that Nobuyuki agrees to go through with it. Just some nice emotional background that doesn't get much light in the Tenchi discussions.

I also like how Nobuyuki makes personal comments about the "pecking order" in Tenchi's harem, with Washu being at the top, yet how her foil is Mihoshi making it a balanced circle. For someone who is known as just a goofy perv, he's a VERY observant and attentative person. Then again, he WAS a GXP officer for a reason...

Found some information that I think might be useful....

One of the main criticisms about Noike is that many feel she is a ripoff of the Kiyone GXP partner role. But listening to Mihoshi, in episode 15, she mentions that Noike was her partner when she was a 2nd Class Detective. Fast forward to around episode 18 where its mentioned that Misao had a choice between Mashisu and Noike to be his right hand man, both of whom were honorable detectives apparently working together as well.....There is also the fact that when Mashisu shows on the scene, Mihoshi shares the same reaction to her as she did Noike. The final clue is this picture we've all seen by now...

(http://imageshack.us/a/img707/6744/0014nv.jpg)
Judging by the similar uniforms, I'm guess they are all the same rank. But Mihoshi mentions that she worked with Noike as a 2nd class detective, meaning all must be 2nd class detectives here. So what's my final hypothesis?

Mihoshi and Noike were NOT partners in the similar sense Mihoshi and Kiyone were. Mihoshi, Noike and Mashisu were a three-man team. From what we've seen, 3 man teams seem common in the GP. When Seina was in the GP academy, he was paired up Kenneth and Rajau in the dormitories. Then there is also Alan, Berry and Cohen who were a secretary like group for ships and joined Seina's ship. There is also Mashisu's 3 man crew who she dispatched against Tenchi's girls' in episodes 17 and 18 who I would guess are previous GP officers along with Mashisu since they seem to go way back with her.

Also 90% sure Tennyo was wearing a disguise when she appeared on OVA 3. She initially planned on playing a prank on Tenchi, but she didn't realize he would take it as hard as he did. She didn't get the memo that Tenchi didn't know Kiyone was a extreme prankster. She mentions she's going to see her friends, so she stays in her white hair disguise. When we see her again, she's coming back from Hawaii with Airi, a trip she took with her old friends. So it makes sense why she was wearing the same white hair disguise.

Good observation Tenchi Ryu. Also, what were Mihoshi, Noike, and Mashisu doing with Tennyo and Kiyone anyway? And why does Mihoshi look so hostile?

Quote from: LightHawkWing on January 29, 2013, 12:34:57 AM
Good observation Tenchi Ryu. Also, what were Mihoshi, Noike, and Mashisu doing with Tennyo and Kiyone anyway? And why does Mihoshi look so hostile?

As for Kiyone and Tennyo thing, I'd just guess it being an art thing, and not them actually being together.

As for Mihoshi being hostile, I'd make a theory on her being a knuckle head and rushing things TBH. One of Noike's main issues with Mihoshi is that she has to always watch her for doing something. We've also been told that she had tendencies like her mom and just do things at random. So I'd bet Mihoshi was the type you had to put a leash on, basically like always having to tell her to calm down, or Don't do that. Even looking at the Mashisu face in the back, she's looking like "What is this girl doing now?" with that expression.

Perfect example? Look at her grandfather and brother...They are the EXACT same way.

Some thoughts on the whole subject as I get ready to rewatch the 3rd OVA for the first time in years. By the time that episode 14 came out the entire Tenchi franchise had changed. Not only had we had TM!TV and STM!, but we had the three movies, the comics, the show had aired on Toonami for a mass audience, and the fans had a different ideas for that Tenchi Muyo: Ryo-oh-ki was than what it was ever intended to be.

Anime itself had also changed. While people argue that UY and Ranma paved the way for the harem genre, (they did in their way, I suppose) Tenchi, is what set the rules for it and made it a capital 'T' THING. The series that followed all had a dude living with a bunch of girls in his house, all of whom wanted his jock and in most of those scenarios, the crux of the story was about who he was going to pick. Or to put it better the emotional tension comes from: 'how are the obvious couple surrounded by obstacles going to eventually find a way to get over their issues and respond to each other'. Sometimes one or the other is more interested, for example, in Love Hina, Keitaro wants Naru more or less the entire series, Naru is the one in denial most of the time, and the series is about navigating the land mines until those two crazy kids figure it out.

Prior to TM! the basic formula was the love triangle, this was seen just about everywhere: KOR, Macross, Maison Ikkoku, and about every major show with a romantic subplot before or since. Hell, even LH had a MASSIVE LT throughout. And again the tension in a love triangle is who is the main character going to pick.

These romantic subplots hold the viewers attention so well because in many ways they are the through line throughout the entire series. In an action show, baddies can come and go, but the romantic tension will remain until finally that plot is resolved. And even though relatively little time is spent dealing with it as compared to say action and transforming robots, as in Macross, the romance aspect is what sticks with people.

So when the third, and supposedly final OAVs came out to wrap up the story, Kajishima kinda trolled fans who were expecting the OAV version of the TM!TV ending, hard. It spent time on MIHOSHI! and NEW PEOPLE! and NOIKE and not on the important part that people had invested time, and energy and fanfic and shipping wars on. Who the fuck is Seto? Why is she here?

It didn't help that apparently the OAVs were cut short (where is the confirmation on this BTW, I know he said it in a doujin, but I heard it was to be a 13 episode series at one point, any idea where that was stated?) and only spent one episode on what is traditionally considered the most important aspect of the story (just WTF is Tenchi)? And most importantly to most, he never picked anyone. Wasn't that the point all along, wasn't he supposed to pick Aeka, or Ryoko? or if you were a crazy fan both?

Well, no. That has never been the point of the series, its just that what Tenchi is in Kajishima's mind, and what it became, due to a whole range of influences in fan's minds are two completely different things.

It also didn't help that it does, in my memory at least, seem to be missing a bit of the emotional core of OAV2 that made those episodes so special, but 14-20 are going to be rewatched soon.

For the most part that sounds about right.

"Who the fuck is Seto? Why is she here?"

Do you mean that's how the viewers thought or what you were thinking when you finally rewatched OVA3? As for who Seto is, she's the most powerful figure in all of Jurai and she was there first hand to establish relations with Washu & smooth things over after negotiations with Funaho ended in stalemate. All those bitchy 'fans' would already be more familiar with her had they actually taken the time to watch GXP first or like Japanese fans, were able to read Kajishima's novels beforehand. Both of which were made available before OVA3 was brought to market.

Honestly, there's a lot going on with OVA3 - Mihoshi's screwed up family, wrapping up the goddess arc, Jurai further scrutinizing Tenchi's harem & lastly addressing what happened to Tenchi's mother. Under normal conditions that much story could have filled a 13 episode series by itself & it certainly did not help that the producers felt the gap between OVA titles was so great, that it demanded the better part of an episode recapping what already happened.

Anyway, OVA2 and OVA3 were both cut short. There were meant to be a few more episodes before 'Here Comes Jurai', but they were scrapped somewhere around the time Tenchi got picked up as a TV series. The still framed 'Here Comes Jurai Part II' was likely part of those scrapped episodes. Notice the abrupt seasonal change between EP12 & EP13? That's why.

And after the goddess arc wrapped up, OVA3's sales took a major hit, so funding was once again pulled. [Sales went from around 20K per volume to half that.] So while Kajishima had intended there to be more story, everyone got short changed. As for how long OVA3 should have been, I'd guess the correct number was 12. OVA titles are usually done in sets of 6. So with the goddess arc taking up 6, the next 6 should have begun with Tenchi's mother.

When it comes to anime, Kajishima does not seem like the luckiest guy out there. It feels like everything the guy works on gets funding pulled before he has a chance to finish it! But at least Tenchi got treated better than Agga Ruter did. At this point I can't blame the guy for clinging to novels for nearly two decades.

Pretty much right on the money bishopcruz. One thing you mentioned that I always find critical in breaking down the whole thing is the harem vs love triangle view that seems to divide fans. One thing that Love Hina, Ramna and even current harems have is that although you might see 3-5 girls, its really only one or two that have a REAL chance with the guy, and the other girls pretty much just become a Supporting Harem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupportingHarem). When it comes to Tenchi and the perceived notion this is the situation, I particularly blame this on two things.

First is the obvious, over saturation of Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo. In the original toonami loop, We'd get a OVA 1+2, TU, TinT loop, and a rinse and repeat when the cycle ended. So counting that up, that's only 13 episodes of OVA compared to 52 episodes of spin-off. In these spinoffs, It really was just Ryoko and Ayeka who loved Tenchi. So if you're watching Toonami Tenchi, there is a .80/80% chance you are watching a love triangle for that episode. And since many lump all 3 series as the total Tenchi experience, the concept of the other girls liking him gets lost in transition.

Second is the wrong acceptance of Ryoko and Ayeka's affection in the OVA's. It gets indirectly understood as them loving him the most when its just they are the most animated about their love for him. I like to bring up episode 7 cause this seems to be the episode many point to to show their perceived Ryoko-Ayeka-Tenchi love triangle, yet this episode properly displayed all the girl's affection for Tenchi. Washu made a statement that pretty much described Ryoko and Ayeka in a nutshell for the episode, "Two wet fools who forgot to knock". They just happen to be the most energized and horny, but I don't think that should take away the fact that Mihoshi, Washu and Sasami like him just as much.

One thing that really disappoints me is how Mihoshi's affection gets passed on by fans as not serious or not important. From what I've seen, she's very much in love with Tenchi as Ryoko and Ayeka is. She's just more reserved and doesn't go all out making herself look desperate in the process. In episode 5, she was already telling us Tenchi was her destined soulmate. In episode 6, she went to go avenge Tenchi just like Ryoko and Ayeka did when she could have just let GXP know of his location. In episode 7 where when asked from Yosho about being Tenchi's wife, she was more nervous about his feelings than hers. Then in that same episode where she was jumping like a highschool girl with a crush when telling her superior Tenchi wanted her to come back to his home.

Another thing I did like about OVA 3 was that it established that Mihoshi is just as much in this "race" as anyone else. From the radio drama of her having dirty dreams about Tenchi, to her emailing her brother everyday about Tenchi, to even making it a priority to have Misao meet Tenchi. She's even paired up with Ryoko and Ayeka when getting tied up by Washu for always hovering over Tenchi and not giving him space.

Fucking hate when I come late to a discussion and someone else has already taken the majority of the points I would have used.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 13, 2013, 02:55:58 PM
Fucking hate when I come late to a discussion and someone else has already taken the majority of the points I would have used.

(http://i.imgur.com/LEkuOC5.jpg)

Hahahaha

You know, a lot OVA 3 haters tend to say that they didn't like Noike because she's a "Mary Sue." I don't see her as one, I just see her as a normal chick, you know what I mean? As "normal" as someone in her situation can be. Being a regular person with abandonment/foster home issues does not=being a Mary Sue.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 14, 2013, 04:10:48 AM
Hahahaha

You know, a lot OVA 3 haters tend to say that they didn't like Noike because she's a "Mary Sue." I don't see her as one, I just see her as a normal chick, you know what I mean? As "normal" as someone in her situation can be. Being a regular person with abandonment/foster home issues does not=being a Mary Sue.

I think the majority of Noike hate comes from Kiyone fans that are still 10 YEARS LATER mad about Noike being in OVA 3 and not Kiyone. Also she was a common enemy for shippers that felt "Threatened" by her.

In an interview, Kajishima had stated that he was OVA 3 to focus on the Chousin Sisters.  I had wished that Kajishima was more careful when he added the Kuramitsu Family subplot.  I like the ideal of Tenchi meeting Mihoshi's own family.  One of Kajishima's mistakes was not confirming that the Galaxy Army Genereal who was talking to Mihoshi's grandfather Minami was Mihoshi's own father Nakita Kuramitsu.  In GXP, Misao was working for his father and his Great Aunt Mikami.  Before the events of GXP, Nakita had convinced Mikami to change his son's punishment to helping him on an important mission.

I did felt that OVA 3 had left me with more questions which need to be answer. I do hope that there will be a couple of more OVA series.  Of course, I will ahve to leave it up to Masaki Kajishima.
:how:

Agree, Mihoshi's family really has a lot of exploration that could be done on them, truly fascinating people. And I agree that Nakita didn't get a proper introduction. He was at least however shown in the Kurumitsu family scene in episode 5.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9935/tenchimuyoryouohkiova30.jpg)
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9935/tenchimuyoryouohkiova30.jpg)

Quote from: shades of blue on February 12, 2013, 02:50:46 PM


Anyway, OVA2 and OVA3 were both cut short. There were meant to be a few more episodes before 'Here Comes Jurai', but they were scrapped somewhere around the time Tenchi got picked up as a TV series. The still framed 'Here Comes Jurai Part II' was likely part of those scrapped episodes. Notice the abrupt seasonal change between EP12 & EP13? That's why.

Never hear this about OVA2, where was this mentioned. I figured there were cut scenes, but entire episodes? Do we know what they would have been about?

Quote from: shades of blue on February 12, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
And after the goddess arc wrapped up, OVA3's sales took a major hit, so funding was once again pulled. [Sales went from around 20K per volume to half that.] So while Kajishima had intended there to be more story, everyone got short changed. As for how long OVA3 should have been, I'd guess the correct number was 12. OVA titles are usually done in sets of 6. So with the goddess arc taking up 6, the next 6 should have begun with Tenchi's mother.

That doesn't make much sense, the goddess arc wrapped up with the last episode of the series, OAV 3+1 was a one-shot that was created after the fact and it feels more like the condensation of story happened in episode 6 more than anything else. It would make more sense that his number of episodes would have been cut after episode 3, when there was the first big hiatus, or sometime during the arc itself. Do you have a link where you got that info?

Quote from: shades of blue on February 12, 2013, 02:50:46 PMWhen it comes to anime, Kajishima does not seem like the luckiest guy out there. It feels like everything the guy works on gets funding pulled before he has a chance to finish it! But at least Tenchi got treated better than Agga Ruter did. At this point I can't blame the guy for clinging to novels for nearly two decades.

Isekai was great because he was able to get a full 13 episode OAV that he could play with as he wished. And it showed. As such it was probably the best told of any of his individual series.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 12, 2013, 06:38:39 PM
Pretty much right on the money bishopcruz. One thing you mentioned that I always find critical in breaking down the whole thing is the harem vs love triangle view that seems to divide fans. One thing that Love Hina, Ramna and even current harems have is that although you might see 3-5 girls, its really only one or two that have a REAL chance with the guy, and the other girls pretty much just become a Supporting Harem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupportingHarem). When it comes to Tenchi and the perceived notion this is the situation, I particularly blame this on two things.

First is the obvious, over saturation of Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo. In the original toonami loop, We'd get a OVA 1+2, TU, TinT loop, and a rinse and repeat when the cycle ended. So counting that up, that's only 13 episodes of OVA compared to 52 episodes of spin-off. In these spinoffs, It really was just Ryoko and Ayeka who loved Tenchi. So if you're watching Toonami Tenchi, there is a .80/80% chance you are watching a love triangle for that episode. And since many lump all 3 series as the total Tenchi experience, the concept of the other girls liking him gets lost in transition.

I think TU is especially guilty of this. Look I loved TU, I've been a Tenchi fan since the tapes were coming out individually back in the day and the dub was considered one of the best in the land. It took me a long time to really understand that the show was NOT about "which one would Tenchi (or really, I) pick?", but more about how the characters evolve in the world that Kajishima created. Again, shows in which the main character had THAT many girls going after him were pretty much nonexistent at the time, and the popular shows which had romantic conflict were about a triangle. Even if you were to accept the idea that it would move past a triangle into say, a pentagon at the end of OAV 13, it would still be about which ONE of the four he would get with.

TU had many failings, but it DID do a good job of creating a full arc over a 26 episode run, provided action and laughs, and had one of my favorite endings of an anime at the time. And it WAS about that idea of WHO Tenchi would pick. And for many that was a lot more satisfying, on a visceral level.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 12, 2013, 06:38:39 PMSecond is the wrong acceptance of Ryoko and Ayeka's affection in the OVA's. It gets indirectly understood as them loving him the most when its just they are the most animated about their love for him. I like to bring up episode 7 cause this seems to be the episode many point to to show their perceived Ryoko-Ayeka-Tenchi love triangle, yet this episode properly displayed all the girl's affection for Tenchi. Washu made a statement that pretty much described Ryoko and Ayeka in a nutshell for the episode, "Two wet fools who forgot to knock". They just happen to be the most energized and horny, but I don't think that should take away the fact that Mihoshi, Washu and Sasami like him just as much.

Well, that and they end up being the most obvious of the suitors to side with. And the show spends the most time getting into their heads when it comes to how they feel. Aeka has a good portion of her introductory episodes based on her burgeoning attraction to Tenchi and Ryoko has her love for him pretty much always at the fore. In OAV 2 especially, we see a LOT of just how much Ryoko deeply loves the schlub, and the audience feels for her. With the others it's generally played as a joke. So it is understandable that the audience identifies most with the two lead female characters, they are the leads for a reason.

And that's not to say that the other girls aren't in love with the big T, they most certainly are, but far less screen time is given to them in that regard than to Ryoko and Aeka.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 12, 2013, 06:38:39 PMOne thing that really disappoints me is how Mihoshi's affection gets passed on by fans as not serious or not important. From what I've seen, she's very much in love with Tenchi as Ryoko and Ayeka is. She's just more reserved and doesn't go all out making herself look desperate in the process. In episode 5, she was already telling us Tenchi was her destined soulmate. In episode 6, she went to go avenge Tenchi just like Ryoko and Ayeka did when she could have just let GXP know of his location. In episode 7 where when asked from Yosho about being Tenchi's wife, she was more nervous about his feelings than hers. Then in that same episode where she was jumping like a highschool girl with a crush when telling her superior Tenchi wanted her to come back to his home.

Another thing I did like about OVA 3 was that it established that Mihoshi is just as much in this "race" as anyone else. From the radio drama of her having dirty dreams about Tenchi, to her emailing her brother everyday about Tenchi, to even making it a priority to have Misao meet Tenchi. She's even paired up with Ryoko and Ayeka when getting tied up by Washu for always hovering over Tenchi and not giving him space.

Right, but that goes back to what I said above, it is a misconception, but an understandable one. Ryoko and Aeka are the ones at the forefront of expressing how they feel, we see how the idea of Tenchi loving them, or not, affects them more than the other girls. Mihoshi is totally head over heels for the man, but either because of her character type, or how it was played on screen it doesn't come off as quite as serious. It can easily be viewed as a crush (I saw it as such for years) Maybe if we ever find out about the 'incident' and if it did involve having her heart broken as many suspect, then that would be a good time to show how deep her love really is, and how important he is to her.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 14, 2013, 04:10:48 AM
Hahahaha

You know, a lot OVA 3 haters tend to say that they didn't like Noike because she's a "Mary Sue." I don't see her as one, I just see her as a normal chick, you know what I mean? As "normal" as someone in her situation can be. Being a regular person with abandonment/foster home issues does not=being a Mary Sue.

Well, kinda like Washu said in EP 20, Noike was given a bit of a handicap, and while she had been planned for ages, I doubt most people would have looked at her sideways had the series gone one more or less uninterrupted in say 1995. Still, she was seen as stealing time and possibly Tenchi away from the 'correct' girls and that was not to be tolerated. And at the end of the day, she is no more special than anyone else at that house.

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on February 14, 2013, 02:25:48 PM

I think the majority of Noike hate comes from Kiyone fans that are still 10 YEARS LATER mad about Noike being in OVA 3 and not Kiyone. Also she was a common enemy for shippers that felt "Threatened" by her.

And yeah, the Kiyone fans. Kiyone is a fun foil people, but she's barely a character!!!!!!!

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 14, 2013, 07:58:01 PM
Agree, Mihoshi's family really has a lot of exploration that could be done on them, truly fascinating people. And I agree that Nakita didn't get a proper introduction. He was at least however shown in the Kurumitsu family scene in episode 5.
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9935/tenchimuyoryouohkiova30.jpg)

Damn! I did not know that! Just watched these episodes today too. Is that Mihoshi pre incident in that pic?

Also, how did Misao get out of chopping wood?

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PM

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on February 14, 2013, 02:25:48 PM

I think the majority of Noike hate comes from Kiyone fans that are still 10 YEARS LATER mad about Noike being in OVA 3 and not Kiyone. Also she was a common enemy for shippers that felt "Threatened" by her.

And yeah, the Kiyone fans. Kiyone is a fun foil people, but she's barely a character!!!!!!!

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 14, 2013, 07:58:01 PM
Agree, Mihoshi's family really has a lot of exploration that could be done on them, truly fascinating people. And I agree that Nakita didn't get a proper introduction. He was at least however shown in the Kurumitsu family scene in episode 5.
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9935/tenchimuyoryouohkiova30.jpg)

Damn! I did not know that! Just watched these episodes today too. Is that Mihoshi pre incident in that pic?

Also, how did Misao get out of chopping wood?

Hate to admit it but you're right about Kiyone. What else did she have going for her besides her partnership and disdain for Mihoshi?

And yeah, that's Mihoshi pre-incident because her hair is down and I believe someone answered that question about Misao earlier.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PM
Never hear this about OVA2, where was this mentioned. I figured there were cut scenes, but entire episodes? Do we know what they would have been about?

If I had to make a guess, I'd bet they would venture into OVA 3 territory since episode 12 and episode 13.5 started to introduce Tokimi, Z and D3.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PMThat doesn't make much sense, the goddess arc wrapped up with the last episode of the series, OAV 3+1 was a one-shot that was created after the fact and it feels more like the condensation of story happened in episode 6 more than anything else. It would make more sense that his number of episodes would have been cut after episode 3, when there was the first big hiatus, or sometime during the arc itself. Do you have a link where you got that info?

Not exactly sure what he was planning, but he definitely planned more. In the doujin "Omatsuri Zenjitsu no Yoru Omake Ban", or the one everyone knows as the Tenchi and Noike having sex doujin, both the foreward and afterword show Kajishima going into a mini-rant about not being able to do the series like he originally wanted. Focus on the 2nd paragraph in the first pic, and the 3rd paragraph on the second pic.
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3152/omake01english.jpg)
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4835/omake10english.jpg)
Basically, Kaji was not pleased with how he was being told how things should and shouldn't be apparently. And from the looks of it, decided to just cut OVA 3 short. It sucks because a lot of the content could have been at least 2-3 episodes on their own, especially properly explaining Noike's history, getting more in detail with Mihoshi's past and just fleshing out the scenes in episode 19. In fact, Astronerdboy has a storyboard of Tenchi meeting counteractor Misaki when time traveling in episode 19.
http://www.astronerdboy.com/tenchi/Articles/Tenchi%20Meets%20Misaki%20in%20Future.html

So there was definitely some stuff that was suppose to get into OVA 3 that didn't.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PMIsekai was great because he was able to get a full 13 episode OAV that he could play with as he wished. And it showed. As such it was probably the best told of any of his individual series.

This format is something Kaji should stick to for the rest of his career, PERIOD. 45 minute episodes really gives him a chance to allow him to do his typical humor and ecchi he likes, but still gives him time to explain when need be. For a 13 episode series, we got 26 episodes worth of content. This imo has set the standard.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PMAnd at the end of the day, she is no more special than anyone else at that house.

Which is why I never felt why the other fan groups felt "threatened" by her. All she did was just make a place for herself alongside everyone else. You want to see a girl come in and completely dominate? Watch Tenchi in Tokyo.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PM
And yeah, the Kiyone fans. Kiyone is a fun foil people, but she's barely a character!!!!!!!

I try to not really touch on this since I want to follow my own rules of not committing unnecessary character bashing, but Kiyone isn't exactly a special character to me. I definitely don't hate her, nor don't wish for her to never return. But my overall opinion of her is..."meh". She had the cop-duo thing going on with Mihoshi, but if you took that away, you didn't really have much else. I also think it took away a lot of Mihoshi's independence. Even in OVA 3, Mihoshi might be a clutz, but she still has her own life and her own hobbies. And I mentioned in another thread, her room is the BOMB!! Even got a HDTV, I don't even think Tenchi has that lol.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PMAlso, how did Misao get out of chopping wood?

If I'm remembering correctly, Misao's punishment was modified by Minami, possibly at the request of his father Nakita. He was instead placed to head the Galatic Army. And well, being in the army always has its risk I guess...

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on February 15, 2013, 12:22:00 AM

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PM
Isekai was great because he was able to get a full 13 episode OAV that he could play with as he wished. And it showed. As such it was probably the best told of any of his individual series.

This format is something Kaji should stick to for the rest of his career, PERIOD. 45 minute episodes really gives him a chance to allow him to do his typical humor and ecchi he likes, but still gives him time to explain when need be. For a 13 episode series, we got 26 episodes worth of content. This imo has set the standard.

Well, it was originally designed as a 26-episode TV series, but with no broadcast plan in place, squish-boom 13-double-length-episode OVA.  :smug:

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 14, 2013, 08:43:46 PM

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on February 14, 2013, 02:25:48 PM

I think the majority of Noike hate comes from Kiyone fans that are still 10 YEARS LATER mad about Noike being in OVA 3 and not Kiyone. Also she was a common enemy for shippers that felt "Threatened" by her.

And yeah, the Kiyone fans. Kiyone is a fun foil people, but she's barely a character!!!!!!!

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 14, 2013, 09:56:25 PMHate to admit it but you're right about Kiyone. What else did she have going for her besides her partnership and disdain for Mihoshi?

Do you guys really want to give my Kiyone-fangyrlishness time to shine?  Anyway, the Kiyone we see in TU is not the original Kiyone who had an attraction to Tenchi in nearly every continuity except TU.  (She even had an attraction to him in TinT).  More about that here: http://www.uselesstenchi.org/Forum/index.php?topic=203.0

I think the first animated Kiyone, the Mihoshi Special Kiyone, was really a competent officer struggling under Mihoshi and doing the best job she could to appease her bosses and Ayeka.  And within the same episode's credits, we see a glimpse of Evil Kiyone (with black hair) that we never see again in animated form but is referenced and used multiple times in other Tenchi and PS products.

She was very interesting.  That TU took her and made her a 1 trick pony is par for the course for TU, in how it flatted every character is no surprise.  Later continuities didn't have much to go by either, at least from their animated predecesssor.

I like Kiyone a lot and I think she had/has a lot of potential.  If MK took her for OAV3, gutted what he needed to, and made her roughly fit into a Noike mold, I wouldn't have complained.

Quote from: جبريل 無道 on February 15, 2013, 08:38:30 AM
Do you guys really want to give my Kiyone-fangyrlishness time to shine?  Anyway, the Kiyone we see in TU is not the original Kiyone who had an attraction to Tenchi in nearly every continuity except TU.  (She even had an attraction to him in TinT).  More about that here: http://www.uselesstenchi.org/Forum/index.php?topic=203.0

I think the first animated Kiyone, the Mihoshi Special Kiyone, was really a competent officer struggling under Mihoshi and doing the best job she could to appease her bosses and Ayeka.  And within the same episode's credits, we see a glimpse of Evil Kiyone (with black hair) that we never see again in animated form but is referenced and used multiple times in other Tenchi and PS products.

She was very interesting.  That TU took her and made her a 1 trick pony is par for the course for TU, in how it flatted every character is no surprise.  Later continuities didn't have much to go by either, at least from their animated predecesssor.

I like Kiyone a lot and I think she had/has a lot of potential.  If MK took her for OAV3, gutted what he needed to, and made her roughly fit into a Noike mold, I wouldn't have complained.

I have nothing against Kiyone per se, and now that I think about it I haven't seen the Mihoshi special (never really had an urge to) but as you said in TU she was a 1 trick pony, pretty much like everyone else, in MnE she didn't have much of a role, in TnT she had practically no role and that's about it. We know that Kajishima had ideas of Noike from what 1995 at least? So I do very much belive that the Mihoshi's partner idea didn't originate with Hasegawa, and so I don't see a need to try and shoehorn Kiyone into that role. Kiyone does very little that moves the plot itself forward she's an afterthrought to the entire series and it shows.

Again not to say I don't LIKE her, I do. She had a very attractive, 90's character design, though it has aged more than the others. She worked well as another everyman character in the group. It's just the girls in the house are all set up to MOVE stories. Aeka and Ryoko clearly do, Washu and Sasami, aslo. Mihoshi, until OAV 3 was kind of a hanger on in that regard but that has changed, Noike also added to the dynamic as well. 

And it also comes back to her name. Kaji had a set number of names he wanted to work with (parts of the geography around kurashiki) and as such both her first, and last names were already taken by other characters. That and Kiyone sounds a lot more Juraian than not.

In the link I posted, I actually show that in the book vs movie MnE, they actually switch Mihoshi and Kiyone's roles for the scene where they ponder who Mayuka's mother is.  In the movie, it's Mihoshi who gushes with Ayeka and Sasami that they could be the mothers with Kiyone acting as the killjoy.  In the book, Kiyone is actually the one gushing with Ayeka and Sasami that she could be Mayuka's mother.

MK also was the one who gave Kiyone her GXP uniform and bandana in Hasegawa's first book.  He and Hayashi submitted illustrations for her, Hayashi did the character design and MK added those elements.

I highly recommend the Mihoshi Special.  Right after OAV1, director Hayashi did that as his last Tenchi project before El-Hazard and Pretty Sammy.  Ryoei Tsukimura did the screenplay, and she's pretty good in certain capacities, she did most of the Tenchi Universe, and the first TMiL movie as well.  Last time I looked, Bakabt had the blueray torrent up of it.

I don't think there is really a problem with reusing a name, especially when the other one with the name is dead.  They could have played up Kiyone having the same name just like Tennyo had the identical character design.

To be blatantly biased but honest, I would have liked Kiyone way more if she liked Tenchi (outside of the Novel continuity). That's all there is to it for me. Even if she had the same role where she was just tagging along with Mihoshi, if she was swooning over Tenchi with the rest, I might be in the "Burn Noike with pitchforks" group myself. Well, not that extreme but you get my drift lol.

Then again, I could care less who joins a harem. My motto, the more the better.  :chord: :chord:

Quote from: جبريل 無道 on February 15, 2013, 11:21:06 AM
In the link I posted, I actually show that in the book vs movie MnE, they actually switch Mihoshi and Kiyone's roles for the scene where they ponder who Mayuka's mother is.  In the movie, it's Mihoshi who gushes with Ayeka and Sasami that they could be the mothers with Kiyone acting as the killjoy.  In the book, Kiyone is actually the one gushing with Ayeka and Sasami that she could be Mayuka's mother.

MK also was the one who gave Kiyone her GXP uniform and bandana in Hasegawa's first book.  He and Hayashi submitted illustrations for her, Hayashi did the character design and MK added those elements.

I highly recommend the Mihoshi Special.  Right after OAV1, director Hayashi did that as his last Tenchi project before El-Hazard and Pretty Sammy.  Ryoei Tsukimura did the screenplay, and she's pretty good in certain capacities, she did most of the Tenchi Universe, and the first TMiL movie as well.  Last time I looked, Bakabt had the blueray torrent up of it.

I don't think there is really a problem with reusing a name, especially when the other one with the name is dead.  They could have played up Kiyone having the same name just like Tennyo had the identical character design.

Yet, it does seem pretty clear that Kajishima really wants to stay as far away as possible from that character. Either way, I think we're at a bit of an agree to disagree empasse and I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent. I will check out the Miho special, as outside of Pretty Sammy it is pretty much the only animated tenchi I haven't seen, (and pretty Sammy holds NO interest to me whatsoever.).

Back to the topic on hand I do think that there are a few valid criticisms of the third OAV that did hold it back quite a bit:

First, the pacing is a little weird. It's kinda like a mix of the first and second season in that regard, it feels like there are introductions each episode oftentimes multiple ones, and the show does not always to the best job adressing these new additions on its own terms. It's not so much of a problem if you have seen GXP, but lord help you if you missed it. It's confusing as all hell.

Second, The emotional core of the show isn't quite as apparent. Season 2 is far and away where the show understands how to tug at the hearstrings, you learn about Washu's past, Sasami's fear of rejection, Ryoko's inability to really understand the feelings of others and herself, and Zero's merging with her to help her become a more balanced individual. Season 3 has some great bits of this, but it never quite reaches the levels that season 2 did, and the times where some of thos scenes are (say when the Choushin are protecting Tenchi) they are almost more moving on a second viewing because the actual enormity of what is being said can actually sink in (due to the lightning pace of EP 6)

Third, Kajishima is a bit of a troll. He specifically tries to go against audience expectations when we does some of the reveals. Especially the mother. Fans attatched to Achika the perfect kickass mom from TMiL? The one who sacrificed her long life to save the galaxy and her son? Well, he's gonna give you the batshit crazy one who loves playing practical jokes and died an (apparently) meaningless death. Like Kiyone, he's going to give you Noike? Expecting a war between 3 godesses? He's going to give you three sisters who get along pretty damned well.  Now the seeds for all of these revelations were hidden throughout the series (and GXP) but the fact remains no one likes to be duped.

Last, For being over 10 years in the making, it never really felt like THIS was what we had been waiting for all this time. Episode 6 definitely did, but the rest, it was good, but without the context of additional episodes if felt a wee bit run of the mill. I think that's my biggest complaint overall with the series, it felt like the 14-19th episodes of a 26 episode series followed by the final episode of that same series. After a 10 year wait it was jarring.

Time has been kinder to this OVA than most though and I find myself really liking it again, but while some of the complaints I do feel are just kinda silly some I very much understand.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 15, 2013, 12:44:38 PM


Third, Kajishima is a bit of a troll. He specifically tries to go against audience expectations when we does some of the reveals.

STILL pisses me off when I think about it. Around Isekai episode 10 or 11. Kenshi finally gets his true weapon for his mech. We get references to goddesses and all that. We hear the name of the sword, Tenchi. Kenshi doesn't say a god damn word. I'm like, are you F#$king kidding me Kajishima?

This boy's entire purpose has been to get back home, and hearing his brother's name once doesn't even spark a "oohhh, that's my brother's name. This kid went ON and ON and ON and ON about his sisters the ENTIRE series, you finally hear your bro's name, and you can't even throw us a bone Kaji?

I was venting for like an entire day on the internet for that lol.

Quote from: bishopcruz on February 15, 2013, 12:44:38 PMYet, it does seem pretty clear that Kajishima really wants to stay as far away as possible from that character.

Tbh, I think he coopted her in Noike by taking the elements he wanted.  He did say:

QuoteK: That's true, people usually expect something big. But, basically, the Tenchi movies extend the Tenchi Muyo! TV series, right? My thoughts about the TV series are, they put Kiyone and Mihoshi together as a team, independent of the Tenchi family. At the same time, the TV version of Kiyone will never care for Tenchi. I don't quite agree with that particular TV version of Kiyone. She has the most "normal human" personality amongst the girls and I think she and Tenchi are the best match.

And OAV3 gives you a feeling that Noike was made to be the best match for Tenchi.  And all of Noike's domestic abilities and fiance stuff is to make her a part of the household, which was the reason he didn't like the TV version of Kiyone.

I don't think it's a big deal.  Afterall, Hasegawa did take pretty much all his characters to make her 13 books.

I think it says a lot about Noike that she flat out told Ryoko and Ayeka the truth about why she was actually sent to the house in episode 16. She didn't have to and could play up the fiancee role if she chose to but she clearly wanted to to make them more comfortable with the situation that nobody had any control over.

And concerning the whole "she came in and took over the house" issue people have with her, if you ask me, she did what she did to make the house's inhabitants more of family. "Thank you for your hard work today. Without all of your help, it would be quite impossible to keep this house under control." It's because of her that Ayeka and Ryoko can sit together and have an actual conversation. "Here exists an uncontrollable military might that belongs to no nation...and unlike you, I have the ability to turn against Tenchi if the situation warrants it." She knows they'd never turn against him, so she wants to make the house a home instead of a bunch of crazy uber-powerful broads living under one roof and fighting over this dude.

The more I watch OVA 3, the more I take a liking to Noike. She is great if you actually take the time out to get to know her.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 17, 2013, 01:05:54 AM
I think it says a lot about Noike that she flat out told Ryoko and Ayeka the truth about why she was actually sent to the house in episode 16. She didn't have to and could play up the fiancee role if she chose to but she clearly wanted to to make them more comfortable with the situation that nobody had any control over.

The thing to remember though is although Noike came in thinking the engagement was just a ruse to watch Tenchi (which it was), the engagement was still very real on paper. Not only did Seto want her own eyes in the household, she genuinely was hooking Noike up with Tenchi, playing up on her "matchmaker" nickname. Yosho even joked with her in episode 16 and told her she could "live up her role" a little more if she wanted to. Funny part is, a little bit further and she just might have. She was caking it up with Tenchi pretty hard in her ship lol.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 17, 2013, 01:05:54 AMAnd concerning the whole "she came in and took over the house" issue people have with her, if you ask me, she did what she did to make the house's inhabitants more of family. "Thank you for your hard work today. Without all of your help, it would be quite impossible to keep this house under control." It's because of her that Ayeka and Ryoko can sit together and have an actual conversation. "Here exists an uncontrollable military might that belongs to no nation...and unlike you, I have the ability to turn against Tenchi if the situation warrants it." She knows they'd never turn against him, so she wants to make the house a home instead of a bunch of crazy uber-powerful broads living under one roof and fighting over this dude.

The more I watch OVA 3, the more I take a liking to Noike. She is great if you actually take the time out to get to know her.

She even won Ryoko over, that's pretty damn impressive considering she still can't stand Ayeka.

One of my only gripes with OVA 3 is it's really making me heated at how stupid Mihoshi is in this one! I adore Mihoshi in episodes 4-13 but then somehow during that year long gap before OVA 3 starts, Universe Mihoshi somehow stumbles into the wrong continuity. -_-

Quote from: LightHawkWing on February 17, 2013, 03:55:33 AM
One of my only gripes with OVA 3 is it's really making me heated at how stupid Mihoshi is in this one! I adore Mihoshi in episodes 4-13 but then somehow during that year long gap before OVA 3 starts, Universe Mihoshi somehow stumbles into the wrong continuity. -_-

Flouride in the water did it.

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on February 17, 2013, 04:17:43 AM
Flouride in the water did it.

Nah, she got stupider by rotting at home laying in her bed and watching Galatic Jersey Shore all day...
(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu340/killaplaya247/tenchimuyoryouohkiovassss30g_zpsfba9295c.png)

Ryoko looks at the tv in disappointment.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/552e76c5fbfb5b916855dde7eea0d64d/tumblr_mjak3wlxMe1s0fqdfo1_500.png)
"I find her Mary Sueish because she came in and took over the house. Everyone was powerless against her and could only listen to what she said. Within the first few episodes, the girls became utterly lost without her guidance. And you might say that the house was in chaos before Noike so it makes sense that she brought order, but I disagree. I think it was exaggerated to make Noike seem more necessary. Yes, there were moments of chaos in the Tenchi household, but there were also a lot of peaceful moments. Even before Noike showed up, in OVA 3 itself, the girls were all sitting around quietly watching Tenchi's dad put together a computer. And before that, Ayeka and Sasami nicely asked Ryoko for her help in finding Ryo-ohki, and Ryoko complied. So it's not like it was a constant struggle before Noike showed up.

As for her flaws, they're very pretty flaws that Mary Sues have a tendency to have. I mean come on, she was an orphan adopted by royalty. Yeah... that comes right out of the old Sue playbook."

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/9880509b74343233a4650e01466c9cdd/tumblr_mj8uqyDUC81s0fqdfo1_500.jpg)

I SAY GOD DAYUM!!!!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/yes-rudy1.gif)

I think I'm liking this Tumblr thing, got some really good contributors there. Feels nice to see some people actually remember Tenchi is apart of this show as well lol.

Yeah, I loved that confession too!

And this is what I responded with to that Noike, Mary Sue thing:

"As one of the GXP doujinshi notes, Noike is an earnest person that just never seems to be able to get married, even though she seems like she would. Perhaps Noike is so competent, earnest, and powerful, she intimidates most men, even though she could be a wonderful wife. So, men either fear her or want to use her. That worried Seto, so I'm sure that she would like it if something more developed between Noike and Tenchi."

So the "Mary Sue"-ish behavior that some fans see in Noike, that being her take charge attitude and her overpowering nature is apart of her character and apart of her development. It concerned Seto and putting her in the house with Tenchi and the girls to change her and help her was apart of the plan, not just that she would come in and take over the house which isn't/wasn't Noike's objective, making the house a family was, a surrogate family at that.

Noike's job was to come and monitor the house whose inhabitants are the most powerful people in the galaxy. She made it clear in episode 16 that they're a military might belonging to no nation; in episode 13, they proved to Funaho, Misaki, and Azusa that they have absolutely no intention of going to Jurai (as of now) so what does Seto do? Send in a den mother to keep tabs on them, of course, with a couple ulterior motives regarding the personal situation and not the political.

How did Noike hope to make sure this group with more power than any known army would never become an army? Make sure they were a family in a home instead of a bunch of uber powerful psychological cases living under a roof on an underdeveloped planet. Her ulterior motive: she needs a family. Being adopted by Seto is one thing, but I doubt they had a typical mother/daughter relationship with them being who they are so moving into the house and being integrated into a family is the best thing for her. Seto's ulterior motive: softening Noike's rough edges, taking the stick out of her ass, giving her a family, and of course, to play matchmaker as usual and as Sasami said, to throw pebbles into water to see how big the ripples are.

Ayeka and Ryoko might have yielded to letting her stay in the house, but in no way are they obedient to what she says and aren't "utterly lost without her guidance." That's not what was happening. Ryoko finally caved in episode 16 and started doing some chores and got off her lazy ass, Noike's appearance making her realize that it's what's best for Tenchi. Ryoko's line "you're a pretty good person" let us know that she knew what Noike's intentions were and just the fact that she SAID that OUT LOUD, should have solidified that for us and lets us know that the things we fans try to accuse Noike of doing are not what she was doing.

Quote from: LightHawkWing on March 07, 2013, 12:47:20 PM

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9mzvlKC7K1ra7go3o1_500.gif)

(http://cjzero.com/gifs/VCOver.gif)

Topic shitted on....its over

Lighthawk Wing and Tenchi Ryu have presented honest replies.  Kajishima had confessed that OVA 3 would focus on the Chousin/Z, and other elements like Tenchi's extended family. Kajishima had intrroduce Mihoshi's own family the Kuramitsu Family.   We got a chance to see how slightly dysfunctional the Kuramitsu Family is as well as close the family members are.
Washu's husband was a member of the Kuramitsu family. Now, only a few members of the family are aware of the truth that they have a Chousin as a member of their family.

Kaijishima  did make a few mistakes on the side. He had forgotten to mention that the G.A. General talking to Mihoshi's grandfather the Marshall was Mihoshi's father Nakita Kuramitsu. Nakita was not thrill over the fact that the Marshall had  allow his son Misao to borrow the keys to the family's latest battleship the Chobimaru.

One of the only things which I hated about OVA 3 were the way which the news of the death of Tenchi's mother was handled. Kiyone's death was treated as a bad joke.  Tenchi's recollection of Kiyone's wake was beter than how Katsuhito and Nobuyuki had explain how Kiyone had died. Kiyone had simply died from old age, even thru she look like a woman in her mid-thirties.

We do expect that Sasami will start thinking about finding friends who will be around her own age. If there is an OVA 4, Sasami knows that she will be going to school in the nearest town.  Sasami will likely meet a girl around her age in the first episode.  It is likely that the name of Sasami's friend will be Misao. Tenchi will likely meet his other siblings during the Obon Festival.    The Obon Festival is a way for Kajishima to allow Tenchi to meet his other siblings.  Tenchi may meet Tennyo's husband, too.

:how: :huhm:

Quote from: takahata on March 07, 2013, 04:50:11 PM
Tenchi may meet Tennyo's husband boyfriend, too.

FTFY (http://www.oni-hime.com/doujinshi/doujin4/images/page11.jpg). ;)

I know I didn't like OVA 3 because it confused the hell out of me after watching OVAs 1 and 2 and not GXP afterward. But I'm watching GXP on Youtube right now and it makes OVA3 make so much more sense now.

Quote from: SAF2013 on March 08, 2013, 01:09:48 AM
I know I didn't like OVA 3 because it confused the hell out of me after watching OVAs 1 and 2 and not GXP afterward. But I'm watching GXP on Youtube right now and it makes OVA3 make so much more sense now.

ya I usually tell new people to the series to watch GXP before OVA 3 helps a lot

Yea Japan really had it good since GXP aired first, so a lot of the stuff, from Seto's matchmaking fetish to Airi's relationship to the family was already explained.

One joke that was explained in GXP is that she doesn't like being called grandma, and Tenchi even comments on this in GXP episode 17. So fans were probably eager to see what happens when he would inevitably call her that. Though he got off a little easier than expected, probably cause he was a first time offender.

heh that joke was easy for me to get since she's probably how many 100s of years old again? I notice GXP is a lot more ecchi than the earlier OVAs or TV series LOL. Not that I'm complaining, I'm a bit of a perv myself so I find it as a nice surprise. Kinda wish I hadn't spoiled myself though in knowing that Tenchi and the gang will show up in a later episode. I probably should have watched this yeeears ago but for some reason the idea of Tenchi (because that's who it looked like in the official art) leading a galaxy police fleet seemed off putting. I don't know why since the idea was original. I guess I was more into battle anime at the time.

I noticed the Kiyone talk a page back and I really liked her older character, well design anyway. I enjoyed the whole buddy cop gag between her and Mihoshi that it sucks not seeing it be used anymore by the creator. I guess her alternative in the OVAs is fine, I mean she is a better character than the original Kiyone but I miss her disdain for Mihoshi's antics and struggling to deal with her. Although I'm really liking her alternatives (I forget her name in the OVAs) design. Its grown on me. She looks a lot sexier than the original Kiyone.

Quote from: SAF2013 on March 08, 2013, 01:34:12 AMI noticed the Kiyone talk a page back and I really liked her older character, well design anyway. I enjoyed the whole buddy cop gag between her and Mihoshi that it sucks not seeing it be used anymore by the creator. I guess her alternative in the OVAs is fine, I mean she is a better character than the original Kiyone but I miss her disdain for Mihoshi's antics and struggling to deal with her. Although I'm really liking her alternatives (I forget her name in the OVAs) design. Its grown on me. She looks a lot sexier than the original Kiyone.

:wtf:

Noike is okay, but I though Kiyone was a sexi gyrl.  She's who I chose as my SI's mother

:frustrated:

(http://s23.postimage.org/ej161m1zv/2008_07_25_109141.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
image sharing (http://postimage.org/)

Well in terms of character design, I still prefer TU!Kiyone over Noike. Now Noike grew on me and I fully accept her as a character in the Tenchi canon. But going purely on design was, still prefer TU!Kiyone. And she still remains my second favorite girl to be paired with Tenchi in any timeline/alternate universe/etc. Second only to Tenchi/Tsunami(older Sasami). Not the loli version you sick bastard.  :doom:

*I mean I still prefer Harem ending above all. But I still have a preference in the girls. :P

Quote from: SimmyC on March 09, 2013, 02:47:37 PMBut going purely on design was, still prefer TU!Kiyone. And she still remains my second favorite girl to be paired with Tenchi in any timeline/alternate universe/etc. Second only to Tenchi/Tsunami(older Sasami).

Good taste!  :soqoot:

I once read a Tenchi/Sasami/Kiyone fanfic, do you like that sort of idea?

A submission I just got:

"When talking about OVA 3 haters' hatred for that season, I read something someone said about getting rid of Seto and I honestly got so dumbfounded and frustrated. Do you know how much of the story would be lost or just not happening without Seto? This is the woman who got Azusa to become Emperor in the first place and made way for him to marry Misaki so that Aeka and Sasami could be born. The woman who fought for Azusa to marry Funaho despite bigotry. The woman who knew that Yosho was unha unhappy being a chained up prince with unrequited love and trapped in an unwanted arranged engagement and sent him to the Academy to make him better, give him freedom and even taught Airi how to cook to please him despite the fact that her planet is at WAR with Jurai and knowing he was engaged to Aeka. This is the woman who made the way for Yosho and Airi to get married, making the way for the main character of the entire freaking show. The woman who kept it a secret for 700 years that she knew where Yosho was so that he could continue to be happy and could continue his plans for our main character which began the show with Ryoko and Aeka's arrival. I feel like people don't even pay attention to OVA 3 and just "oh shit there goes a new character, lemme roll my eyes and suck my teeth because they're new" I'm not excusing the fact that OVA 3 was a cramped piece of rushed material but some complaints are simply ridiculous"

New post on the Tumblr:

"Well I think some people in the Tenchi fandom can be summed up as "oh my favorite character isn't put on a pedestal above all the other equally important characters so i HATE this show" or "I'm gonna state some opinion and have nothing to support it or back it up"

LOL, the internet is a bitch ain't it.

Still that's nothing, this is just some anime characters and most of the "shit-talking" between anime fans is just troll fake tough guy shit. I guarantee half the folks wouldn't being saying that in someone's face.

Now Sports on the other hand, that shit gets real....Oh if I don't like your team and you're in MY arena, I'm gonna let you know lol.
https://www.youtube.com/v/Gps9vq83UIA

Now that's dedication, and that's not even Hockey. Even I don't try to go to a BlackHawks game and talk shit lol

Look what I found

(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/7d/7d/c9a08f1a2f5c01dcaf713d7d9d83eb9e.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/0f/f8/63aa39c28578d2a2e267fbfa7029f229.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/5a/d6/4c97f25388df5e20bf1ebb5e82bab414.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/2c/19/2f62d434081b3b808c6e07fdc28c4d24.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/02/1a/c158e2ab918d139c71b5561cd2f17c47.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/3a/67/6d3e8d59865970ac4270399c442fea1a.jpg)
(http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/77/bd/40f04b275788b904445f65a04b56e2a6.jpg)

On my list of blog topics, this has been one for me to do for a few years now (along with a "Back to the Archive" review of OVA 3 and OVA 3+1). I've got to try to do that this year and not get distracted by...ooooh! Shiny object over there!

Quote from: AstroNerdBoy on April 19, 2013, 03:21:20 AM
On my list of blog topics, this has been one for me to do for a few years now (along with a "Back to the Archive" review of OVA 3 and OVA 3+1). I've got to try to do that this year and not get distracted by...ooooh! Shiny object over there!

ABOUT GOD DAMN TIME

:chord: :chord: :chord: Great News to hear!

Okay, I've got to ask one thing:
If the first thing I watched was OVA3 (subbed) and it totally made sense to me... where does that put me?

Quote from: For Washuu on April 23, 2013, 08:01:02 PM
Okay, I've got to ask one thing:
If the first thing I watched was OVA3 (subbed) and it totally made sense to me... where does that put me?

In the group with every other person who's watched OVA 3 for the first time in the last 2-3 years.

One of the main things people complain about is being confused. But i can bet that majority of these same people are watching it Dubbed. That's a HUGE no no. Funimation did a even worse job than Pioneer did with the english translation. You have to watch it subbed as well as dubbed not cause of preference, but because the subbed version literally explains everything. The Noike-Kagato drama, the counter-actor drama and about Tenchi's existence, Washu literally explains all of this. The guy who did the actual translating would go over stuff with ANB, and made sure he took it with care since he was explicitly told all the details are very important when dealing with Kaji. And it shows, he did a very good job, so I have no clue why the dub did what it did.

But I've never really had an issue with it either. Yea I've gone to rewatch scenes more than once, but that's more so for research when I'm explaining something like on this forum. But in the first go, I was never really stumped or left clueless. But if the other people are still asking how Tenchi was a god in the first place, then its gonna be a hard time explaining to you anyway.

Now Evangelion? That's something that makes me LOST, I'm still stumped by a lot of that stuff. Learning about the Walls of Jericho and shit like that, I would have NEVER known Asuka's feelings for Shinji was THAT deep if I never researched it.  :staredog: :staredog:

Quote from: For Washuu on April 23, 2013, 08:01:02 PM
Okay, I've got to ask one thing:
If the first thing I watched was OVA3 (subbed) and it totally made sense to me... where does that put me?

Oddly enough, in a fairly large company from my anecdotal information. When FUNimation released OVA 3, obviously, my FAQ got a big traffic boost and folks would ping me questions. However, when I'd ask them what they thought about OVA 3, they universally really enjoyed it and found it fine.  OVA 3's detractors came from old fans who had their own notion of what should or shouldn't be in OVA 3 (not that OVA 3 didn't have its problems, but it isn't bad).

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on April 23, 2013, 09:11:16 PM
The guy who did the actual translating would go over stuff with ANB, and made sure he took it with care since he was explicitly told all the details are very important when dealing with Kaji. And it shows, he did a very good job, so I have no clue why the dub did what it did.

I can explain the dub part a bit, having been minorly involved on the FUNimation side. Back then, FUNimation's business model was to have the subtitles for hardcore fans like myself and dubs for casual anime fans.  So, dub script writers take the translations, then tweak it as the director sees fit depending on what they think will work best for the audience.  I did address a concern over taking too many liberties, as they did for the GXP dub, but that's all I could do.  In the end, as far as FUNimation is concerned, the dub is a success since most anime watchers are dub watchers and OVA 3 was a great seller for FUNimation.

I lobbied to have Mato do the subtitles for WoG, but alas, FUNimation went elsewhere. :-(  Plus, FUNimation's business model today ignores hardcore fans like myself, so their subtitles are just 'meh' to me now.

Quote from: AstroNerdBoy on April 26, 2013, 12:12:55 AM
I can explain the dub part a bit, having been minorly involved on the FUNimation side. Back then, FUNimation's business model was to have the subtitles for hardcore fans like myself and dubs for casual anime fans.  So, dub script writers take the translations, then tweak it as the director sees fit depending on what they think will work best for the audience.  I did address a concern over taking too many liberties, as they did for the GXP dub, but that's all I could do.  In the end, as far as FUNimation is concerned, the dub is a success since most anime watchers are dub watchers and OVA 3 was a great seller for FUNimation.

I lobbied to have Mato do the subtitles for WoG, but alas, FUNimation went elsewhere. :-(  Plus, FUNimation's business model today ignores hardcore fans like myself, so their subtitles are just 'meh' to me now.

Yea, I heard they don't even try to do honorifics anymore, a shame since a lot of times those can let you know how a certain person feels about someone. Like I consider it a huge deal you have Tokimi of all people calling Tenchi "Tenchi-Sama" like its completely casual and normal. The same chick who was looking down at these low mortals just a few episodes ago.

Hopefully ISM will get the dub closer to the source this time. Lord knows I need to rewatch that, I watched the original run with everyone else, and since then just have watched certain clips or scenes. Need to rewatch the whole thing in one go again.

The difference in quality from episodes 2-5 is absolutely mind boggling compared to episode 6. Too easy to tell Kaji pumped ALL that damn budget money in this episode.

Way late to this, but my 2 cents.

I really like OVA for what it seems to be at least.  As much Tenchi information that could be fit into 7 episodes.  It feels rushed because of it, but if the only place your able to enjoyably get that information(don't like or don't have access to the novels) then its the best possible of a bad situation.  I think given the time of 12, 13, or 26 episodes we would have gotten it handled in a much better way.

My only problem with Noike is she cut her hair.  I really think she got added because of Sasami/Tsunami.  Noike is really the cool and calm character for Tenchi that I think Tsunami was meant to be.  However that would have meant making Sasami have to grow up a lot quicker than the story would allow.  Enter Noike that can be that much calmer influence.  The fanboy part of me still like Ayeka, but Noike is a better fit by the OVA story.

As to the whole TU/TT thing I can't stand them for the most part.  I wouldn't have given Tenchi a second glance if the OVAs didn't exist.  They were such poorly written fluff for the most part with as much depth as a puddle.  I honestly can say I wouldn't have liked them in the least even if I had nothing else to compare them to.  They try to take the characters and fit them into the worst of atypical harem mold and that takes away all the depth of the story.

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on November 13, 2012, 10:05:23 PM

Quote from: Eric3285 on November 13, 2012, 09:50:39 PM
The thing that got me the most was that Ryoko's & Mihoshi's original English voice actress didn't come back, those voices are just so ingrained into my memory for those characters, anyone else doing them just sounds wrong, i guess other quips would be the unnecessary flashbacks, the lack in back story for Mihoshi, and just lack of more episodes haha. I love it though, OVA is the best series for me

Ryoko and Mihoshi's voice actor not being there I think was a funimation issue (the jap. version has all the original though!). also the flashbacks and lack of Mihoshi's back story I agree with as well,

I really liked the original dub voices, but that isn't why I hate the new.  Both are much too high most of the time almost sweeking.  The Mihoshi trys at least and has some life too it.  I would compare Ryoko voice though to a paint by numbers.  That is why I try to watch it subed when I can.

Quote from: Sorwen on July 11, 2013, 05:57:21 PM
As to the whole TU/TT thing I can't stand them for the most part.  I wouldn't have given Tenchi a second glance if the OVAs didn't exist.  They were such poorly written fluff for the most part with as much depth as a puddle.  I honestly can say I wouldn't have liked them in the least even if I had nothing else to compare them to.  They try to take the characters and fit them into the worst of atypical harem mold and that takes away all the depth of the story.

I see TU/TT as bonus content I don't hate them but if they had the same back story as the OVAs (such as Ryoko as Washu's daughter) it would have ranked as high as the OVA imo.

Quote from: Dr.Soviet on July 11, 2013, 08:47:38 PM

Quote from: Sorwen on July 11, 2013, 05:57:21 PM
As to the whole TU/TT thing I can't stand them for the most part.  I wouldn't have given Tenchi a second glance if the OVAs didn't exist.  They were such poorly written fluff for the most part with as much depth as a puddle.  I honestly can say I wouldn't have liked them in the least even if I had nothing else to compare them to.  They try to take the characters and fit them into the worst of atypical harem mold and that takes away all the depth of the story.

I see TU/TT as bonus content I don't hate them but if they had the same back story as the OVAs (such as Ryoko as Washu's daughter) it would have ranked as high as the OVA imo.

I will not say it didn't have any redeeming qualities.  It just definitely didn't have 26 episodes of them.

I loved it finally got all the unanswered questions that where left off. I can see why some may have not tho it was a lot more laid back story oriented many even myself missed Tenchi's interaction with the other girls tho no crazy episodic episodes of Washu's experiments going wrong or Ryoko buying for Tenchi's affection exct..  but still that wasnt the focus so I understood but I personally didnt like how easily Ayeka and Ryoko gave into Noike it was out of character not seeing them fight her off despite her standing or the Devil of Jurai hand picked her. I missed the rivalry, still it was great tho.

Relooking at episode 20 again, was some serious character development on Tenchi's part regarding his mother. One thing glossed over a lot is the heart to heart conversation Tenchi and Noike had on the rock that Tenchi was crying on when his mother died.

A lot of fans get pissed that Kiyone was made out to be a jokester and not this perfect mom figure like Achika. But that was the point. That's the reason Tenchi himself punched his father and grandfather, then stormed out the room mad as hell and fuming. Kajishima purposely twists with the emotions many viewers thought of Kiyone, but that was the point. We never actually MET Kiyone, just reviewed the memories Tenchi had. Then we start to see the big picture as Noike explains. Sometimes when we don't know or don't understand something we make assumptions just to ease the confusion and make us feel better instead of just accepting that things are like they are at times and you just have to accept it.

Tenchi wanted to have this perfect mother to remember, but the truth is that he didn't have a mother emotionally. He doesn't actually have memories when she was alive because he was too young to remember, and just "guessed" on how she would be based on the stuff he could remember (which was actually based off memories AFTER she died). And in turn, he realizes he's indirectly insulting his dead mother since he's not seeing her for the person she really was. But as Noike also mentions, that doesn't mean either of them had a bad life, both had alternative people to love them as they grew up and realized both of their mothers cared about them enough to leave them in good hands. So it's why at the end, he apologizes to his mother while looking up at the sky. She might not have been what he wanted or dreamed of, but she did love her son. Just in her own way


(http://i.imgur.com/Y5lcoe5.jpg)

This is a really deep portion of the series, and a lot more emotionally draining compared to the usual Tenchi Muyo type of material. You can tell that Kajishima might have used personal experiences when it came to explaining Tenchi's mom. Makes me wonder if he lost his mother when he was young.

Wow really good explanation! That make me stop disliking Mama!Kiyone being not how Tenchi remembered.

I also liked that post. I gave him a +1 for it.

Someone else gets it, finally.  :smug:

I'm literally not pretending to be a special snowflake or anything but that's what I always got out of it. Tenchi practically hero worshipped his mom, this woman he never knew. Only then to find out she's completely different.  And then eventually accept that, hey, she still loved him, raised him for the short very very time they were together, and accepted it.

I think maybe that might be because I kind of never really went to any Tenchi forums since around the time the new OVAs came out. I mostly just went to TMAU to read stuff and was otherwise occupied with other things online. So I never got to see the other argument and think my way of thinking was flawed.

Still, you put it to words better than I could Ryu. So thanks for that. Now I can steal it and post it as my own.  :duke: Nah not really.

Since this is my first post on this website I will state where I am coming from. First of all let me start with saying that I am a fan of the OVA series particularly OVA1 and OVA2 I also liked Universe although I hated Tenchi in Tokyo. So I was very much excited for OVA3 I thought that it would be an amazing continuation. I was sadly disappointed for one the story over all was pretty terrible. The Mihoshi's family plot was poorly executed, there were plot holes because it was pretty much stated in the earlier OVAs that Katsuhito/Yosho had pretty much no contact with the Jurai royal family and yet all of a sudden he has a Airaian wife and it seems like everyone in space knew he was on Earth. I also must disagree with Tenchi Ryu on Kiyone Masaki. It was stated earlier by Katsuhito that Tenchi was serious "just like his Mother" now all of a sudden she is some practical joker. I mean we had the amazing story for Achika in the Tenchi Muyo in Love movie and his Mother was reduced to being some deranged joker. Not only was that bad writing honestly it seemed like something a troll would write. To be honestly Kajishima shit on Tenchi's Mother's legacy. Rea and Tennyo as well came out of left field and I found it strange how all of a sudden they were trying to make Rea as if she was some constant part of Tenchi's life when this is the first time we ever saw her. The Female Kagato stuff came out of left field as well and the idea of Kagato being a hermaphrodite who hated Women just sounded ridiculous to me. The ending was rushed and honestly a bit ridiculous and hard to follow. I also did not like Noike she was basically Kiyone mixed with Sakuya aka a Mary Sue. I don't know why Kajishima did not just use Kiyone as she was an amazing character. There are tons of good shows that incorporate characters form other canons of the show. Look at Harley Quinn, she was created originally for the Batman animated series but she was so popular she eventually got put in the comics and now you can hardly find a Batman or DC series without Harley Quinn. I think that Kajishima missed a golden opportunity by not including Kiyone Makibi in the OVA canon. Plus I feel like I read somewhere that even in Japan OVA3 didn't do that well. Over all the OVA 3 had a chance of being great. Like dealing with the Goddess Sisters etc but it didn't turn out to be up to my expectations.

Hi Maria, that all would be easier to read if you put it in several paragraphs.

I think OAV3 sold around 20K units per disc, which is above excellent for anime in general.  Someone else may have more info on that.  But I agree with some of you what you write; particularly Rea.  It would have had far more impact if we seen Nobuyuki move on from his loss while or after Tenchi "grew into a man" with Rea introduced as his new girl, rather than have her existing in his life all this time.

I think MK was trying to have a girl that was known and accepted by (mama) Kiyone be with him, perhaps a Japanese sensibility of rightness in this case.  Idk.

Also, welcome to the boards :)

Thanks Ms Anthrope for the welcome I hope to make many friends on this forum. However I found another article that pretty much reflects my feelings on the 3rd OVA.

http://otakurevolution.com/content/third-times-no-charm-the-problem-of-tenchi-muyo-ova-3

Wrote a review for it some time ago:

http://myanimelist.net/profile/Aarronin/reviews (http://myanimelist.net/profile/Aarronin/reviews)

Short version: first time viewing is jarring but going back with an open mind and its all good.

The only thing which I had like about OVA 3 was that it had included the origins of Tsunami, Washu, and Tokimi. OVA 3 could have been done better.  I hated how The death of Tenchi's mother was treated.  Tenchi's mother had simply died of old age.  I believed that Kiyone had a very rare genetic condition which didn't enable her to live a much longer life.  She did live for 248 years.   

Quote from: takahata on July 25, 2015, 03:50:51 PM
The only thing which I had like about OVA 3 was that it had included the origins of Tsunami, Washu, and Tokimi. OVA 3 could have been done better.  I hated how The death of Tenchi's mother was treated.  Tenchi's mother had simply died of old age.  I believed that Kiyone had a very rare genetic condition which didn't enable her to live a much longer life.  She did live for 248 years.

It just sucks that we were given such a cool origin for Achika and then for Kajishima to make a mockery of Tenchi's mother. It especially makes no sense because in OVA 1 Katsuhito says that Tenchi was the serious type "just like his mother."

Achika's story where she's from though, the Hasegawa novels, don't really match up with Tenchi Muyo in Love.  So which version did you prefer?

Quote from: جبريل 無道 on July 26, 2015, 11:58:56 PM
Achika's story where she's from though, the Hasegawa novels, don't really match up with Tenchi Muyo in Love.  So which version did you prefer?

Tenchi Muyo in Love is what I prefer.

Quote from: takahata on July 25, 2015, 03:50:51 PM
I hated how The death of Tenchi's mother was treated.  Tenchi's mother had simply died of old age.  I believed that Kiyone had a very rare genetic condition which didn't enable her to live a much longer life.  She did live for 248 years.

Really?  I thought it was because she had not bonded with a Royal Tree, as that is what causes the royalty of Jurai to live such long lives.  Otherwise, if normal humans had access to Juraian medicine, they'd live about as long as Kiyone did.

Another thing to bear in mind is that it's hinted that Kiyone was suffering from the Juraian equivalent of Dementia towards the very end there.  Of course, I could be mis-remembering.

Quote from: MariaTenebre on July 26, 2015, 11:25:19 PM
It especially makes no sense because in OVA 1 Katsuhito says that Tenchi was the serious type "just like his mother."

Yosho is a troll.

a) raises grandson to take his place
b) baits Tenchi into opening up the tomb
c) lets his sisters think he's a shriveled up old man
d) trolls Tenchi
e) trolls Aeka
f) molests Ryoko
g) trolls Kagato (both mentally & physically)
h) trolls Aeka & Ryoko
i) tries to deceive his own mother
j) his whole relationship with his estranged wife
k) etc.

Notice a pattern here? Yeah.... Perhaps clinging to some line Yosho used in jest is not so smart. But hey, what do I know. Maybe Yosho is really an old geezer and not the deceitful manipulative piece of shit he appears to be.

I'll play the Devil's Advocate here and say that I rather liked OAV 3. The Animation was absolutely gorgeous, the music was good, the story did its job, and I rather liked Tennyo, didn't mind Misao, and Machisu didn't bother me either

However, that doesn't mean its at all perfect. Rea was well... meh. And the whole way they handled Kiyone was absolute tripe, admittedly a huge "WTF" moment for viewers. In my personal opinion, I think that they should have left Kiyone a mystery if anything, and while admittedly we were all expecting Achika out of Kiyone, I can understand why Kiyone =/= Achika.

Thats my two cents anyway.

Before I had watch OVA 3,  I had thought that Kiyone was a lot like Universe's Achika.  When the truth of Kiyone's death was disclosed to Tecnhi, it was treated as a practical joke.  To me, it is starting to seem that Kiyone was trying to do her best to please her son Tenchi by writing the book.  The practical joke part wasn't necessary.  Kiyone was a lot like her mother. Her sister Minaho is a lot serious like her father Katsuhito. Oddly, Minaho and Katsuhito like to play practical jokes on occasion.

I do wonder why Kiyone had died at the age of 248 years.  Since Airi and her family have long life spans, it would have been normal for Kiyone to have a long life span. I did suspect that Kiyone had a rare genetic condition which simply prevented her from having a long life span.  Now, there is starting to seem that something else had cause Kiyone's life to be short.  Since Achika had died at a young age,  it seems that Kiyone was destined to have a short life. 

OVA 3 is likely the last OVA in the Ryo-Ohki series.  We can only suspect that there will be an OVA 4.  I want OVA 4 to be a sequel to the Ryo-Ohki Seires.

Putting more into it: I never actually hated OVA 3. I never actually cared.

See the thing is, the first time I watched OVA was a long while ago and back then I was just watching for the sake of it/just putting things in my fun brain. Whatever negative things I had for Noike and the story was more from hearsay and me just absorbing the fan reaction from where I was.  :neg:

I think a lot more people unfortunately get stuck in this rut and never move out of it, either content in the group think or just too lazy to do the research/enjoy the show.

Which makes me appreciate this site and my recent purchase of OVA 3 alot more. Now I just gotta get GXP and I'll more or less have the complete Kajishima canon.
:chord:

Quote from: MariaTenebre on July 22, 2015, 02:02:44 AM
Since this is my first post on this website I will state where I am coming from. First of all let me start with saying that I am a fan of the OVA series particularly OVA1 and OVA2 I also liked Universe although I hated Tenchi in Tokyo. So I was very much excited for OVA3 I thought that it would be an amazing continuation. I was sadly disappointed for one the story over all was pretty terrible. The Mihoshi's family plot was poorly executed, there were plot holes because it was pretty much stated in the earlier OVAs that Katsuhito/Yosho had pretty much no contact with the Jurai royal family and yet all of a sudden he has a Airaian wife and it seems like everyone in space knew he was on Earth.

Except  it was pointed out by Yosho'a mother they had known where he was the whole time. Also the novels  pretty much explain that yes Ari was out there and was one of the reasons he ran off in the first place cause he wanted to be with her.

QuoteI also must disagree with Tenchi Ryu on Kiyone Masaki. It was stated earlier by Katsuhito that Tenchi was serious "just like his Mother" now all of a sudden she is some practical joker. I mean we had the amazing story for Achika in the Tenchi Muyo in Love movie and his Mother was reduced to being some deranged joker. Not only was that bad writing honestly it seemed like something a troll would write.

Never mind the one time we see his mother  in the first 2 OVAS she is trolling both Tenchi and Ryoko  as she looks right at Ryoko  and asks if Tenchi who also noticed her if he sees a demon . Yes it would have been clearer if we didn't have the translation  mistake  that called her grandmother .

QuoteTo be honestly Kajishima shit on Tenchi's Mother's legacy. Rea and Tennyo as well came out of left field and I found it strange how all of a sudden they were trying to make Rea as if she was some constant part of Tenchi's life when this is the first time we ever saw her.

Given we saw about 5 minutes of Tenchi's  home life before his house was forcibly  move next to his grandfather's  and after that rarely saw Noboyuki  Rea could have easily  been there the whole time and we would never have known about her and the releaseday dojinshi  hint Kyone  was working  on setting  the 2 up in part because  she knew Rea's mission 

QuoteThe Female Kagato stuff came out of left field as well and the idea of Kagato being a hermaphrodite who hated Women just sounded ridiculous to me.

Again  most of this come as little  surprise  if you had information  about the Washu  novel 

QuoteThe ending was rushed and honestly a bit ridiculous and hard to follow. I also did not like Noike she was basically Kiyone mixed with Sakuya aka a Mary Sue. I don't know why Kajishima did not just use Kiyone as she was an amazing character. There are tons of good shows that incorporate characters form other canons of the show. Look at Harley Quinn, she was created originally for the Batman animated series but she was so popular she eventually got put in the comics and now you can hardly find a Batman or DC series without Harley Quinn. I think that Kajishima missed a golden opportunity by not including Kiyone Makibi in the OVA canon. Plus I feel like I read somewhere that even in Japan OVA3 didn't do that well. Over all the OVA 3 had a chance of being great. Like dealing with the Goddess Sisters etc but it didn't turn out to be up to my expectations.

Noike  had been a planned character  for years with published  pictures  of her as far back as 1996 and some hints she was designed  during the second OVA if not earlier . TU Kiyone  does not fit with the OVA setting a large part of it is Mihoshi is far from incompetent  she's scatter brained  but still able to solve near impossible  cases and give reports that are way too detailed.


Basically  this post hits the nail on the head and it is one of the reasons older starwars fans hate the prequels. It  seems the bigest issue is that it doesn't  fit their head cannon, in part because we didn't get all the information .

There is a lot of great information in this thread.

I'm a person who typically places OVA Tenchi above Universe Tenchi for its initial stronger characters. There are several problems with the OVA in my mind, true, like the incest and the slow decline of characters like Ryoko, but OVA 1 is just wonderful. OVA 2, in my mind, tried and failed at times to capture that magic. Episodes like Night Before the Carnival or I Love Tenchi are examples of episodes that really didn't flow well due to an odd place or readjusting Kajishima's ideas for the storyline (this hurts Night Before the Carnival the most). We had three episodes that had Sasami's period for some reason.

But then you get quality humor like in Here Comes Jurai or Sasami and Tsunami, or the character moments like Tenchi looking at his Mother's kimono or Sasami's emotional breakdown. It's a mixed bag as a whole, but there is a lot to love.

On the flip side, the first half of Universe is weak. Certain moments work well, like Kiyone's introductory episode, or the increased focus on Nobuyuki's relationship with Yosho and Tenchi. Nagi and Kiyone work as they are foils to Ryoko and Mihoshi. That being said, as much as I love Kiyone, it doesn't work as well with OVA Mihoshi since she is actually competent.

The second half had balls, though. Tenchi has always debted itself to Star Wars, and that section is pure space fantasy. On paper it is great. But people forget that half of those episodes are basically filler, including the worst Ryoko episode of all time. However, from the second Azaka and Kamidake get introduced, it turns itself around and becomes wonderful. It is the polar opposite of the OVA, which started very strong and diminished over time.

This brings me to OVA 3. Now I did not hate OVA 3 as strongly as others, but I was disappointed by it. I thought there was so much more that could be done. The girls got reduced screen time to make up for Noike, Kiyone was reduced to a joke, Tennyo and Nobuyuki's scene, and Rhea just kind of appeared, though Nobuyuki's infrequent appearances could allow for it. Are these things annoying? Yes, but not really any more annoying than the abrupt tonal shift of Sasami and Tsunami or the attempted rapes of Tenchi.

My biggest issue for me was, hands down, the lack of accessibility that was in the show. If I am watching a show, looking at books and novels that I can't read should not be required material. Red Letter Media brought that up in their Star Wars reviews and it's true. The Shin Tenchi Novels should be more like Easter Eggs used for light world building, not the only reason for Misaki's sudden appearance or Naja/Kagato's female side. Those things need to be built up in story to get the proper reaction.

Is OVA 3 as bad as people make it out to be? No. Is it good? No. All I know is I'm very interested to examine each episode in depth.

I'll add another point to this thread, which applies to us outside of Japan.

When one looks at OVA 3, one sees that Kajishima-sensei didn't feel like covering old ground, or at least, not that much. While he sets up the fights for Ryoko and Aeka, he doesn't show us the fights. I think that this is because in his mind, we've already seen Ryoko and Aeka fight Kagato, thus there's no reason to see them fight again because he's been there, done that. You know they are going to win, and that's that. He did show the Sasami fight since we've never seen her battle before, but there too, it was after the fact and likely in his mind, he's thinking, "You know she's going to win, so what does it matter when I show it?"

Unfortunately, this is a terrible narrative decision. You don't set up awesome fights, then not show them happen. Even if they are the heroes and are going to win, you don't just show the fight as a flashback immediately after they emerge triumphant from the aforementioned fight.

But beyond that, I honestly believe that Kajishima-sensei expected the Japanese fans to have read the Shin Tenchi Muyo novels and that they would likely be versed on information from the doujinshi and other sources (including the GXP anime). With that in mind, he doesn't bother to set up Rea or other "new" characters to the anime. So Drillmaster has a good point when stating, "If I am watching a show, looking at books and novels that I can't read should not be required material."  Unfortunately, Kajishima-sensei didn't write it for folks outside of Japan, and he didn't write it for those who weren't fans.

Not to just pick on Kajishima-sensei, but this "spread the story over multiple formats" thing isn't that uncommon in Japan. It is part of the "fleece the otaku out of every yen we can get" marketing that Japanese companies do. I think Kajishima-sensei is someone who does this more than most, but in his case, I think it stems from the fact that he just doesn't want to retell a story he's already told. I think in his mind, if you want to know what happened with Azusa's vow at the end of OVA 2 episode 6, you'll read the prelude of the novel "Washu." There's no reason for him to rewrite it for OVA 4 (as an example).

(The exception to this rule would be the GXP novels, which initially started as him "fixing" the things he felt Nabeshin screwed up, but then it became a platform for him to tell a much more elaborate story.)

Quoteif you want to know what happened with Azusa's vow at the end of OVA 2 episode 6, you'll read the prelude of the novel "Washu."

Jurai, actually. (http://www.uselesstenchi.org/Forum/index.php?topic=639.0) ;)

Quote from: AstroNerdBoy on October 19, 2015, 12:58:58 AM

Unfortunately, this is a terrible narrative decision. You don't set up awesome fights, then not show them happen. Even if they are the heroes and are going to win, you don't just show the fight as a flashback immediately after they emerge triumphant from the aforementioned fight.

Actually, it was a great narrative decision because they were NOT awesome fights. That was the joke.

I see a lot of OAV3 hate centered around the fact that a lot of people don't appreciate Masaki Kajishima's sense of humor. I actually loved it. After waiting all those months, with that dramatic buildup, then the new episode comes out and everyone's tied up in the living room. Like, what were we expecting? That was the punchline. I laughed my ass off. It was a good joke. 

I also loved it when Tennyo first appeared, and it was this big dramatic moment, and we all spent months trying to come up with theories, and then the new episode came out and it wasn't even Kiyone!

Then there was Kiyone's death. The 101 TOLD US she died of natural causes! And somehow a lot of us just convinced ourselves he was trying to trick us! It was amazing! The twist was he wasn't lying! And it worked! It was hilarious.

It's like, at some point, we forgot that this show is primarily a comedy.

Quote from: Y_Anthony_Who on October 19, 2015, 04:22:44 PM

Quote from: AstroNerdBoy on October 19, 2015, 12:58:58 AM

Unfortunately, this is a terrible narrative decision. You don't set up awesome fights, then not show them happen. Even if they are the heroes and are going to win, you don't just show the fight as a flashback immediately after they emerge triumphant from the aforementioned fight.

Actually, it was a great narrative decision because they were NOT awesome fights. That was the joke.

I'm not seeing how it was a great narrative decision. If it was supposed to be a joke, I didn't laugh. They set up a fight, but if they wanted to make it a joke on how easily Aeka and Ryoko won (after initially having problems), then  show the joke.

I don't mind Kajishima-sensei's sense of humor, but the only joke I saw was Washu's "fight" with her opponent. Sasami had a real fight, but it was shown after the fact. Ryoko was bloodied when her fight was set up, but then she won somehow. Nothing to see here. Move along. Ditto Aeka, with the joke coming after the fact when Ryo-ohki had the two dog things cowering in fear. We didn't see the end result. We were told of the end result.

But, that's just me.

(Edit: I had the rest of the quote in and forgot to remove it. Sorry about that.)

I just always chalked it up to the fact that it just became redundant to show since it's not much of a guess to what happened. Looks like Sasami dispatched Mashisu in seconds, and was barely phased or tired when she brought her into custody in the living room.

Her being assimilated with Tsunami and all, she's probably very advanced when it comes to fighting. Hell, Tenchi dispatched the most dangerous man in the galaxy in seconds once he got a lick of his vast powers. Sasami, taking out a typical mortal soldier is child's play.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on October 19, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
I just always chalked it up to the fact that it just became redundant to show since it's not much of a guess to what happened. Looks like Sasami dispatched Mashisu in seconds, and was barely phased or tired when she brought her into custody in the living room.

Her being assimilated with Tsunami and all, she's probably very advanced when it comes to fighting. Hell, Tenchi dispatched the most dangerous man in the galaxy in seconds once he got a lick of his vast powers. Sasami, taking out a typical mortal soldier is child's play.

Don't forget what her mother does.  Misaki is in charge of the Emperor's bodyguards.  Which means that woman, despite her sunny and cheerful demeanor is a walking death machine who I'd give even odds against Ryoko (based on Ryoko having only one gem to draw off of, and Misaki having mad skills).

It would not surprise me one iota if Sasami has been learning from her mother as early as possible.  With Ayeka-Yosho having been the heirs-apparent (before Yosho pulled his disappearing act), it would have fallen to Sasami to take her mother's place.

I'm just going to point out that the "We're gonna fight!!" ---then cut to defeat" joke is not uncommon in anime, and that the six friends I forced to watch it with me after it came out all got the joke. Maybe the time interval between episode releases made you get your hopes up, but I thought the wait just made it funnier, same with the Tennyo joke.

That's all I've got to say about it. I just wanted to clarify that is was a joke. Just trying to help.

Yosho beat Ryoko with all 3 gems when he was 30-ish.  And also blocked her punch like it was nothing at 730ish.  I have zero doubt Misaki would beat her.

Because Misaki already beat Ryoko in ep13 wtih 1 gem.  Airi already beat Ryoko in OAV3.  The multieyed ghost monster thing Ryoko summoned in OAV1 beat her in episode 4.  She ran from it in OAV2 while Washu took care of it like it was nothing (Washu was without any of her gems btw).  The Ryo-ohki inspired Masu in episode 10 beat her.  She couldn't beat Kagato alone (he pretty much beat her and other girls combined forces in ep6).  Washu believed if you took Ayeka out of the fight, it would've been over "by now", yet Ayeka was taken out of the fight and it wasn't over.  Washu was surprised by Kagato's version of the gems.  Zero beat her in OAV2.

About the only one challenged by her is a 720 year old princess with 20-odd years of life experience and the rest sleeping in the freezer.

In the OAV continuity, I think OAV3 is the only time we actually seen Ryoko beat anybody.  She's never been established as a particularly good fighter.  Quite the opposite.  The only reason people think she is badass in the series is that she toyed around with a 15 yo schoolboy in ep1 and crashed her ship against Ryu-oh in ep2.  The rest must be stuff outside OAV, like TU.

I don't doubt Ryo-ohki's fighting skills.  But Ryoko's past victories I take as pure brute force with 3 gems.  It's like if I ran over someone with a pickup truck.  That wouldn't make me strong or a good fighter.

And that fits in with the True Tenchi Novel's version of her.  A tool, a sledgehammer.  Kagato didn't send in Bruce Lee to Kung Fu others with skill.  He sent in a monster truck to run them over with its sheer size and weight.  She didn't have to think or practice.  Just bam.  Dead planets.  With that much power, there is no incentive to develop skill.

This pretty much mirrors Tenchi himself but he's 15 and practicing (ep3, with Katsuhito).  I assume he's going to get better.  But I wouldn't say  he's Miyamoto Musashi either.

I agree with your analysis of Ryoko, except, it's my personal belief that Ryoko could take Airi if she were serious. I think she probably knew better at that point than to physically throw down with a guest in Tenchi's house. More than that even, I think Airi's intimidation skills were what really beat Ryoko. Ryoko'd been humbled too many times in the recent past, and Airi "doesn't afraid of anything, not even a Seto".

All of the other winners you mentioned were outliers; very singular characters. Ryoko herself is presented as a very singular character as well, even with one gem. I feel like Airi is presented as, physically anyway, a little more normal(for space).

I don't know though, maybe one gem Ryoko really isn't that strong, or maybe Airi is SOOOO strong that her technique can bridge the rest and overcome Ryoko in her inexperience.

Quote from: Y_Anthony_Who on October 21, 2015, 06:59:48 PM
I'm just going to point out that the "We're gonna fight!!" ---then cut to defeat" joke is not uncommon in anime, and that the six friends I forced to watch it with me after it came out all got the joke. Maybe the time interval between episode releases made you get your hopes up, but I thought the wait just made it funnier, same with the Tennyo joke.

That's all I've got to say about it. I just wanted to clarify that is was a joke. Just trying to help.

Actually, you have a great point here. We had a six month wait between the two episodes, and I was seriously angry when the next episode came out. I still need to rewatch OVA 3 fresh for my blog (which I've been promising to do for years), so I'll have to note that when watch the episodes back to back.

Some incite from our friends over in japan about OVA 3 among other things.

"It is the fact a certain number of people here thinking 'OVA 3 is not good'. But I think there are few people thinking '3 ruined everything'. Certainly some people seem to be disappointed with OVA 3 and stop Tenchi-fan with saying 'Tenchi is out of fashion', but they are 'very light' fan in most cases, so we don't give a fuck. In Japan there are two types of Tenchi-fan, one loves most Tenchi works (incruding Kajishima works, Universe, and others, but many cases except in Tokyo...lol) and the other loves only Kajishima works, but both of them are looking forward to OVA 4 coming."

:son:

Good to hear that the Japanese fans are more sensible than western ones.

Quote from: antvasima on October 24, 2015, 10:15:58 PM
Good to hear that the Japanese fans are more sensible than western ones.

Understandable, they really don't have to go through any hurdles to know stuff like we do. Them knowing the entire series' content is as simple as ordering the whole GXP book series for about 40 bucks on amazon.

Or just getting online scans since they can actually read the stuff and not need a translator like we do. For the people the series is actually intended for, they haven't had much issue at all.

Quote from: Tenchi Ryu on October 25, 2015, 10:26:15 PM

Quote from: antvasima on October 24, 2015, 10:15:58 PM
Good to hear that the Japanese fans are more sensible than western ones.

Understandable, they really don't have to go through any hurdles to know stuff like we do. Them knowing the entire series' content is as simple as ordering the whole GXP book series for about 40 bucks on amazon.

Or just getting online scans since they can actually read the stuff and not need a translator like we do. For the people the series is actually intended for, they haven't had much issue at all.

Not even spend $$$.  They just have to go online.  Can't fudge too much when the source is the same language you read/speaks.

The amount of sheer misinformation and pure speculation passed off as fact in the western Tenchi fandom is astounding.  I bet most of the fan narratives built around the personalities working on the series would be news to them.

I just re-watched episode 15 and I believe it is a  bit offputting.

TThe Tennyo/Tenchi scene in the beginning was definitely jarring and I don't quite understand why Tennyo couldn't just see Tenchi in her regular brown haired form, especially when Yosho revealed his true form to Tenchi later that day.

Also, I've realized that Kaji really expects his fans to have already read his novels and doujin before having watched OVA 3 judging from.the conversation between Washu and Airi where Washu's childhood at the orphanage on Kanemitsu was referenced and compared to Noike's own similar life story, something a casual viewer wouldn't have understood from the dialogue alone simply referencing the two both having lots of 'brothers and sisters'

I've also realized this could be another connection between Washu and Naja as it seems to me, Noike is ultimately a clone of Naja. Both regressed back to childhood for one reason or another and then grew up at orphanage, ultimately to meet each other again when they both fall in love with the God of Heaven and Earth

I had attached a picture of Kiyone's funeral.  In the picture, Tennyo is on the right of her father Nobuyuki. She has brown hair in the picture. Since Tennyo looks like her mother Kiyone, she had to dyed her hair a different color. She dyed her hair brown, in order not  to confused her younger brother Tenchi.

In the same picture, there is a blue hair female between Airi's right  on her right and left of Tenchi's Aunt Kasumi.. Her identity is not known.  At first, it is likely  that the female must be one of Tenchi's female cousins.  It is likely that blue hair female is either Kiyone's  second sister or Tenchi's second sister.  The female cousin who happens to be Taro's mother is left of the young Kirko and her mother.

Lady Seto is the woman on the right of Tenchi's Aunt Kasumi.. She had attended Kiyone's funeral.

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Quote from: LightHawkWing on November 01, 2015, 12:36:51 PM
I just re-watched episode 15 and I believe it is a  bit offputting.

TThe Tennyo/Tenchi scene in the beginning was definitely jarring and I don't quite understand why Tennyo couldn't just see Tenchi in her regular brown haired form, especially when Yosho revealed his true form to Tenchi later that day.

Also, I've realized that Kaji really expects his fans to have already read his novels and doujin before having watched OVA 3 judging from.the conversation between Washu and Airi where Washu's childhood at the orphanage on Kanemitsu was referenced and compared to Noike's own similar life story, something a casual viewer wouldn't have understood from the dialogue alone simply referencing the two both having lots of 'brothers and sisters'

I've also realized this could be another connection between Washu and Naja as it seems to me, Noike is ultimately a clone of Naja. Both regressed back to childhood for one reason or another and then grew up at orphanage, ultimately to meet each other again when they both fall in love with the God of Heaven and Earth

Well the ones who could were the japanese fans. Foreign fans were SOL until we get the physical books and translator programs.

I don't get the hate either, the only thing I was annoyed with was the mother revelation but I'm over it now.

I liked the fight between Tenchi and Z, that part in my opinion was boss. Animation was beautiful and LOL One more added to the harem.

Now um, I don't know why some are confused and saying a lot of this stuff was out of the blue a lot of it was foreshadowed in that Gxp episode when they all had that cameo episode.

I mean Ova 3 came out after Gxp right?

Quote from: Tenchifan30 on December 10, 2016, 02:52:38 PMI mean Ova 3 came out after Gxp right?

This is correct, however not all Tenchi fans watched or became familiar with GXP since it doesn't star the familiar characters.

Or they gave up and quit watching before episode 17.

Quote from: Harls on December 11, 2016, 12:14:30 AM

Quote from: Tenchifan30 on December 10, 2016, 02:52:38 PMI mean Ova 3 came out after Gxp right?

This is correct, however not all Tenchi fans watched or became familiar with GXP since it doesn't star the familiar characters.

Or they gave up and quit watching before episode 17.

I think this is a huge factor! After I watched GXP and switched to the subtitled version I enjoyed OVA 3.

I still think it doesn't come close to what OVA 1 or 2 was. But the parts where it focuses on the family I liked a lot. I think the main pit falls were the story of Mihoshi's brother being to time consuming and while I love the battle with Z I think because of the animation style it just cant compare to "We need Tenchi." I just rewatched the series and it really feels like the climax of the story was at the end of OVA 1 when it probably should have been "Z"
I still think the battle is enjoyable because we see the 3 goddesses and Kami Tenchi.